CNN The Situation Room-Transcript

CNN The Situation Room-Transcript

I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

As we just saw, the president has met with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other Democratic leaders who are just back from Baghdad. Pelosi indicates there are some areas of agreement, but the Bush administration is still battling Congress over a new strategy for Iraq.

Can the United States count on Iraq, though, to hold up its end of the bargain?

And joining us now from Capitol Hill, Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina. He's been a firm supporter of the president's proposal to increase the number of troops going over to Iraq.

So much of this plan depends on Nouri Al-Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq.

Do you trust this guy?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I think he's come to the conclusion that the best hope for the Shia population in Iraq is to live in peace with Sunnis and Kurds and not to be a puppet of Iran, so I trust him to pursue what he believes to be in the best interests of the Shia people in Iraq. And I think that is a political settlement with Sunnis and Kurds, under the rule of law, not the rule of guns, but I'm going to verify, just not trust.

BLITZER: Trust, but verify, in the words of a former U.S. president.

GRAHAM: Yes, right.

BLITZER: He told our Michael Ware, Nouri al-Maliki, in an exclusive interview in Baghdad earlier today, that he wants the United States and Iran to take their so-called proxy war out of Iraq. In effect, he was delivering what some would call moral equivalence, dictating to the United States and to the Iranians to simply get out of his country and fight their war someplace else.

What do you make of this?

GRAHAM: Well, I think I share his goal of getting Iran out of Iraq, to quit destabilizing his regime. He's living on a border that is very tense, now.

Here is what my take on things are. That in the next six months, they can't take over security without American help, but in the next six months they can have an agreement sharing the oil revenue with the Sunnis. They can have local and provincial elections that would empower Sunnis and Kurds, and they could do a great step forward, in terms of disarming the militia. And they could help us fight Iranian agents within Iraq.

But the truth is, if the Iranians are meddling in Iraq, not just so much to mess with us, but to make sure that no functioning democracy can emerge from the ashes of a dictatorship, Maliki needs to understand that the Iranian regime is no more supportive of him than they are of Bush.

BLITZER: He's got to get tough if this is to succeed with Muqtada al-Sadr, the anti-American radical Shiite cleric...

GRAHAM: Yes.

BLITZER: ... the guy who controls the so-called Mehdi Army, this militia. But his government, in effect, depends on the support from Muqtada al-Sadr.

How does he balance that?

GRAHAM: Well, the future of Iraq depends on the choice that you've just described. What is Sadr's vision for Iraq? It's an Iranian theocracy where the three groups can really not live in peace, that you would have a Sunni-controlled -- excuse me, a Shia-controlled theocracy in the place of a democracy. What he has to tell al-Sadr is that you can come inside the political tent and have your say, but if your goal is to create a theocracy outside of a democracy, that you're not going to be allowed to succeed.

Sadr is a demagogue. Every country has demagogues. The moderates need to stand up to the demagogues.

BLITZER: But let me interrupt, Senator, because he's not just a demagogue. U.S. officials, military officers, General Ricardo Sanchez, the first U.S. military commander -- he says this guy has American blood on his hands.

GRAHAM: Yes, he does.

BLITZER: He's killed a lot of American soldiers.

Why not simply go pick him up, arrest him?

GRAHAM: Well, it's a sovereign nation and we're hoping that -- we did deals with former Nazis to stabilize Germany and to counter the Soviet Union. I'm not suggesting that. Here's what I am suggesting -- that the 30 votes that Sadr provides to the Maliki government come at a heavy price. Form a newer coalition, deal him out politically. Let him know that there is no place under his control that the Iraqi army cannot go into.

We need to marginalize Sadr militarily, politically and economically. And if Maliki is not willing to do that, our chances of success in Iraq are limited. If he's willing to do that, Sadr will soon get the message.

Sadr is now understanding you can't boycott democracy if Maliki is serious about marginalizing his militia.

BLITZER: I spoke with Republican Senator Arlen Specter yesterday. He was here in THE SITUATION ROOM and he said he's never seen such emotion that we evident yesterday in that meeting of Republican senators with Vice President Cheney. Given the confusion, the differences that so many in the Republican caucus have right now, take us into that room.

What was going on?

GRAHAM: Well, it was emotional in this regard. If the resolutions are non binding, then that means the troops are going to leave. If you really believe this is a lost war and we shouldn't send anybody else to Iraq to get injured or to get killed, then you have the power as a senator or congressman to stop the deployment by cutting off funding.

If they do leave, any vote in a non-binding fashion -- that is, a vote of no confidence in General Petraeus -- not only weakens the mission, it emboldens the enemy in my opinion. And if they vote of no confidence in a man that I have confidence in -- and I respect my colleagues. We've screwed up Iraq a thousand different ways.

This surge is just not military power. It's a surge on all fronts. It didn't come from President Bush. General Petraeus is the architect of this. I believe in him, so I will argue with my colleagues that the worst thing you could do is allow this commander to go off to a new fight with a new mission and make a political statement you think he's going to lose.

I will not stand for that. That is to me, has no higher purpose. It undercuts our ability to be successful, emboldens our enemy, so there's a lot of emotion. We paid a heavy price for our mistakes. I'm trying not to compound them.

BLITZER: Senator Graham, thanks very much for coming in.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

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