State of the Union Address Coverage-Transcript

State of the Union Address Coverage-Transcript

MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Senator.

Let me bring in right now Lindsey Graham, the senator from South Carolina.

Senator Graham, it‘s great to have you on.

What did you think of the president tonight? Do you think he did the job?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM ®, SOUTH CAROLINA: Yes. It‘s one of the better ones. I—the question is, were people listening?

I thought he did a very good job of explaining how the war in Iraq is part of the overall war on terror, the consequences of a failed state, and the new strategy, if given a chance, could be successful.

In that regard, I think he made a pretty good case that—that we can‘t lose in Iraq, because the consequences of losing are terrible, and this is the best idea left.

MATTHEWS: What did you make of Senator McCain‘s comment—it was in the paper today—that he thinks the vice president has been a bad counselor to this president with regard to the war?

GRAHAM: I don‘t know. I don‘t know if you can limit it to the vice president.

I can tell you this, that we have all up here not done our job in this regard: For two-and-a-half years, we have pursued a strategy that hasn‘t worked. We underestimated how hard it would be to create a democracy out of a dictatorship. We have never had enough troops. Some of us have been talking about that for a while, including Senator McCain. And we have let the problem get out of hand.

So, you just can‘t blame the vice president. I take my fair share of blame, Chris. I thought it would be easier than it would have—than it has been. I—the sectarian violence has gotten out of hand, because al Qaeda hit the mother lode when they destroyed the Golden Mosque, Shia holy site in Samarra.

And we paid a heavy price for those mistakes. Let‘s don‘t compound them by leaving.

MATTHEWS: I don‘t want to put you in the position of being a Saint John to the—the Messiah here...

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: ... John McCain. It‘s not fair.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: But I know you respect him.

But he did also say today, there may come a point, if we don‘t get support from the Iraqi forces in dealing with the stability problems and the violence in Baghdad, we may have to resort to what they used to call in North Carolina, in Chapel Hill, a "four-corner," which we go and basically...

GRAHAM: Yes.

MATTHEWS: ... defend the borders.

Do you think that may be where we will end up in three or four years, defending the borders of Iraq against outside interference?

GRAHAM: Well, we have got one last chance. The Iraqi military and political leadership have one last chance to work with us to get this right.

A failed state in Iraq is what Senator McCain talks about continuously. And we need to talk more about what happens if Iraq fails. We don‘t want the war in Iraq to spread. If you throw in the towel on Iraq, Chris, the fight‘s not over. It gets larger.

But I agree with this: If the Iraqi political leadership doesn‘t step up to the plate, share the oil with the Sunnis, disarm the militia, and come up with some political reconciliation, no—a million troops are not going to make a difference. We all agree with that. Ultimately, it‘s in their hands.

But one last thought: You‘re a great student of history and politics. George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, no one could have a democracy be formed with this level of violence. The Maliki government is eight months old. We declared our independence in 1776. We didn‘t get a constitution ratified until 1789. Five years after the fall of the Nazi and Japanese regime, it took five years before they had their first election.

We‘re a bit impatient as Americans, and we have been unrealistic on how hard this would be.

MATTHEWS: The difference, of course, is, in Berlin, and in Germany, occupied as it was, and Japan, occupied as it was, we suffered no casualties after ‘45.

GRAHAM: We—we had enough troops.

MATTHEWS: That‘s right.

GRAHAM: We literally conquered...

MATTHEWS: No casualties.

GRAHAM: Yes. Well—well, we had some, but we had enough people to control the country. We have never had that.

You can blame Rumsfeld. You can blame...

MATTHEWS: Thirty-six people were killed in Germany in 1945...

GRAHAM: Yes.

MATTHEWS: ... after the V.E. Day. But, basically, it was a peaceful occupation. But...

GRAHAM: Yes, there was a soldier on every corner.

MATTHEWS: And a defeated enemy.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Thank you.

GRAHAM: And a defeated enemy. And you‘re right. We—that‘s right.

MATTHEWS: That‘s the difference. We don‘t have a defeated enemy right now.

GRAHAM: That‘s right.

MATTHEWS: They‘re still fighting.

Thank you.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

MATTHEWS: One of my favorite senators, if it‘s worth it to you, Senator.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

GRAHAM: Thanks.

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