Fox News Sunday - Transcript
Fox News Sunday - Transcript
"FOX NEWS SUNDAY" HOST CHRIS WALLACE: We're joined by two key senators: Democrat Joe Biden, incoming chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and Republican Lindsey Graham of the Armed Services Committee. Both come to us today from their home states.
Let's start, if we can, gentlemen, with the Rumsfeld memo.
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WALLACE: Senator Graham, whether it's the Rumsfeld memo or this very critical memo that came out this week from National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley about Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki, are you concerned about, as Senator Biden put it, the disconnect, the difference between what the administration has been saying in public and what it's apparently been thinking in private?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: Yes, very much so.
You know, Democrats weren't the only people attacked. I've been saying for quite a while that the current strategy is not working.
My problem with the memo is that he suggests that the political leadership in this country lowered expectations.
My suggestion is that the political leadership, led by the president, needs to tell the American public a failed state in Iraq is a dramatic loss in the War on Terror. And we need to reconnect the outcome in Iraq to the overall war on terror. And that's what I think has been lacking.
WALLACE: Well, let's look forward to this bipartisan Iraq Study Group that's going to issue its recommendations on Wednesday. As both of you know, a number of those recommendations have already leaked out, including the basic idea of pulling U.S. combat troops out by 2008, dependent on conditions on the ground.
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WALLACE: Senator Graham, do you favor this idea? Is that about right, the idea of pulling U.S. combat troops out dependent on conditions on the ground by early 2008?
GRAHAM: I reject any proposal coming out of the Congress, any commission, the Pentagon or any other source that sets a deadline or a timeline.
To sum it up, my whole view of Iraq is based on how the outcome affects the overall war on terror. I believe it is the central battlefront in the war on terror.
The Islamic fascists that we're fighting in the War on Terror have several goals: to drive us out of the region, not just Iraq. So if you redeploy to a friendly country, they're coming after us in that friendly country because they want us to leave the region. They want to tackle all moderate regimes, all regimes that are unfaithful to their view of religion. They want to replace these regimes with religious theocracies that have a very dark view of humanity. And finally, they want to destroy the state of Israel.
We must stay, fight and win in Iraq. I reject timetables.
WALLACE: Well, so far at least, Senator Graham, President Bush seems to agree with you, because he seems, at least in public, not to be embracing the leaked recommendations of the Iraq Study Group.
Here's what he said after his meeting this week with Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki. Take a look.
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BUSH: This business about a graceful exit just simply has no realism to it at all. We're going to help this government.
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WALLACE: Senator Graham, what do you think the president should do? How should he handle and respond to the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group?
GRAHAM: We need to respond to the agenda of our enemy.
If we redeploy to a friendly nation under these circumstances, the terrorists will see that as retreat and defeat, and they will come after us in that friendly nation. They will say, "A ha, we've got them to break and leave in Iraq. They've gone to this new country. They think they're safe. Well, we're going to show America you're not safe. If you want to be safe, America, leave the region to us. Let us have our way in this region. If you want to be safe, give us Israel."
That's their agenda. So we've got to win in Iraq.
And any strategy that unites the country and we lose I'm against. I'd rather be divided as a nation and win than united and lose.
This is, to me, the central battlefront in the War on Terror. We need more troops, not less. The Iraqi people need some breathing space from this violence. We've screwed this war up in many ways. You can't have a democracy with this level of violence. When you have a high crime area, Chris, you don't send less police, you send more. We need more troops in Iraq, in the short-term anyway.
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WALLACE: Let me move well, I want to pick up on that for just a second, if I can.
GRAHAM: Could I comment on that?
WALLACE: Yes, you can respond to that, Senator, but let me ask you a question. Are we stuck with Maliki, Senator Graham?
GRAHAM: We're stuck with the elected representative of the Iraqi people. This man was chosen through a democratic process, which is sort of unusual for the region. And he's got more than he can handle. The troops on the ground have more than they can handle.
Joe has been pushing for more troops. I disagree with Joe in this regard: We still can turn this thing around.
When we talk about taking troops out, we deflate moderation and we embolden extremism. We have to boldly stand with the forces of moderation.
Maliki is a force of moderation, even though he's not done it perfectly. And we have to stand firmly against the forces of extremism.
We need a better security apparatus. No prime minister in Iraq can bring about democracy with this level of violence. No military commander can fight the insurgency, train the troops, and rebuild the police with this level of violence. The police force has to be rebuilt from the bottom up.
So when you set timetables and deadlines, you're really defeating, in my opinion, getting this right, because you deflate moderation and you embolden extremists.
We need more troops, with no deadlines.
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WALLACE: Briefly, Senator Graham, why do you think that Bob Gates will do a better job on Iraq than Don Rumsfeld did?
GRAHAM: Because he has a chance to start over with the American public. He has a chance to produce new ideas. He's not a stakeholder in past mistakes as Secretary Rumsfeld was. He has a chance to re- engage.
I intend to vote for him unless he convinces me that he will not support a strategy to win. I'm looking for strategies to win, not political strategies.
WALLACE: Let me switch, if I can, to one last subject. We've had this real-life spy thriller, Russian spy thriller, playing out this week with the radiation poisoning of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko.
Question, and I'll start with you, Senator Biden: Do you believe I understand it's speculation, but do you believe that Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, is involved? And whether we can prove that or not, how should it affect our relations with Russia?
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WALLACE: No, no, I was just going to bring in Senator Graham.
In the time left, your thoughts about Putin and what the U.S. needs to do?
GRAHAM: I think Joe is right on. I think Bush misread his soul. I think this guy is taking Russia backward. He's a problem, not a solution, to most of the world's problems. He could help us with Iran if he chose to. He is becoming basically a one-man dictatorship in Russia. And we need to be tough with him.
Russia needs to be part of the international community in a constructive way. They're going backward, not forward. And now's the time for the international community to speak with Russia with one voice: "Change what's going on in Russia. Help us with Iran."
WALLACE: Senator Graham, Senator Biden, I want to thank you both for coming in and sharing part of your Sunday with us.
BIDEN: Thank you very much.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
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