MSNBC Hardball with Chris Matthews - Transcript

MSNBC Hardball with Chris Matthews - Transcript

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. Speaker Hastert told the "Chicago Tribune," quote, "I think that resignation is exactly what our opponents would like to have happen—that I‘d fold my tent and others would fold our tent and they would sweep the House."

I guess he is talking about the Democrats. And when asked about the conservative base‘s dissatisfaction with how he‘s handled the Foley scandal, the speaker said, quote, "When the base finds out who‘s feeding this monster, they‘re not going to be happy. The people who want to see this thing blow up are ABC News and a lot of Democratic operatives, people funded by George Soros."

Well that‘s what the speaker said last night. Congressman Steny Hoyer of Maryland is the House Democratic whip. He is the No. 2 Democrat in the House. Let me ask you, Congressman, what do you think of that sort of odd blame game there, blaming this whole thing not on himself or on Mark Foley or anybody else in the leadership but on George Soros, the millionaire?

REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD), WHIP: I think it is ridiculous. I don‘t understand it. It sounds a little bit irrational to me, Chris. The fact of the matter is here, we have an issue where clearly the responsibility for the administration of this program and the response to the issues raised were in the speaker‘s office and not on anybody else‘s office. So blaming anybody else is simply, I think denying reality.

MATTHEWS: Do you have faith that the...

HOYER: ... We have a lot of state of denials, as you know.

MATTHEWS: Right, I know, Woodward‘s book. Do you have confidence—you‘ve watched this committee over the years, the ethics committee—do you have confidence it will report back something solid and decisive before the election?

HOYER: I don‘t have confidence in that. I hope that is the case. The ethics committee, as you know, has been asleep, has been defanged over the years and has been put out to pasture. It hadn‘t been effective.

Now Howard Berman is a new member on there. He was effective in the past, I think he can be effective now. I think Dr. Hastings clearly is under a lot of pressure, under a lot of spotlight. I don‘t think they can hide from this.

So hopefully we‘ll get a thorough, complete report on exactly what happened here. We need to know the facts. The public needs to know the facts, the institution needs to know the facts.

MATTHEWS: Had you heard of these stories like Mark Foley e-mailing people, instant messaging people, getting drunk and showing up at the page dormitory in the middle of the night? Have you heard any of those stories?

HOYER: Not once. I never heard this until last Friday, Chris. I was shocked to hear it. And I was shocked that apparently these had been around for some period of time and that we hadn‘t heard about it. I think one of the real problems here was if this was not dealt in a bipartisan, nonpartisan way, perceived as an institutional problem that all of us need to look at in terms of our responsibility in protecting these kids.

It was looked at apparently more as a political issue to be dealt with only by the Republican Party, either by the campaign committee or by Shimkus without Dale Kildee, who is the Democratic member of the page board being involved. I think that is unfortunate. I think it would have been dealt with much more forcefully had it been a much more open and collegial process. But unfortunately, that is not the way this institution has not worked lately.

MATTHEWS: Why do you think they make a point of sidestepping Dale Kildee, the only Democrat on the page committee?

HOYER: Because I think they wanted to keep this secret. I think they were more concerned about re-electing Foley and keeping that seat. We have a very good candidate in that seat, Tim Mahoney. I think that they are very concerned about losing control, losing power, and I think in the focus of keeping power, they did not want to include any Democrat in the process that might somehow put Foley at risk. I think that was unfortunate. And again the focus was on protection of a politician rather than on protection of the children.

MATTHEWS: Nancy Pelosi shot down, she objected is her term, to the proposal by the speaker just today that you create some sort of the investigative committee to look into—investigative post, it would be Louis Freeh, the former FBI director, to go and look at the page system itself. Why did your party not like that idea?

HOYER: Chris, as I understand what happened, and I talked to Leader Pelosi very briefly about it, Speaker Hastert called her and told her, this is what he was going to do. Unfortunately what should have happened in this whole process is call up and say, what do you think we ought to do, what can we do together to address this problem.

As I understand it, and I agree with her, Leader Pelosi said, look, Mr. Speaker, what we really ought to look to do is somebody who is an expert in this field. Louis Freeh, director of the FBI, I don‘t know what expertise he might have on this.

But the problem, of course, is not the page system. The problem is an individual who abused the page system, abused his power as a member of Congress and was not dealt with in an effective way. That is really what we need to be looking at.

Having said that, we need to certainly involve experts on how we can make sure that we have our antennae very sensitive to make sure if there is any danger posed to any child in our care and custody working with us, that they are protected.

MATTHEWS: OK. We‘ll be back with Congressman Steny Hoyer, Maryland.

Hang in, Congressman, we‘ll be back with you.

You‘re watching HARDBALL on MSNBC.

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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.

We‘re back with the U.S. Congressman Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the House Democratic Whip, that‘s the number two—do you like that title, whip? I wonder how many people get it. You know, they think you actually have a whip in your in your hand, you know?

HOYER: You know where that comes from, Chris?

MATTHEWS: No.

HOYER: It comes from Great Britain, fox hunts, you got the foxes going after the hounds, and the hounds tend to get on the of the pack, so you had two outriders with whips, keeping them in line. So I tell people their job was to keep the foxes going after the hounds, my job is to keep the Democrats going after the Republicans.

MATTHEWS: Well, here is a HARDBALL question for you, Mr. Hoyer, and I‘ve known you a long time and I know you‘ll find this to be a hardball down the middle. nothing tricky about this one. Do you think the correct model for the speakership should an real leader, like Tip O‘Neill, who I worked for and you worked with, a real boss, a guy who‘s in charge of everything, or this big teddy bear character, this Drew Carey character we have now, a speaker who is always there, sort of as the front man for Tom Delay? Should the speaker be the boss and not just a figurehead?

HOYER: I think the speaker has to be the leader of the House. And that‘s a distinction you need to make. The leader, as you know, is elected by the whole House and has a responsibility to the whole house. The leaders of the parties need to be the leader of their parties. Obviously the majority leader needs to be in conjunction, working closely with the speaker who was elected by the majority, to put policy forward, and pass policy, and do the work of the American public.

But you certainly need a speaker who is strong, focused and articulating an agenda that the American people and the members of Congress can relate to.

MATTHEWS: And this guy, Speaker Hastert, doesn‘t pass that?

HOYER: Tip O‘Neill was that kind of speaker.

MATTHEWS: And the one we have right now doesn‘t sound like the way you set that up. Articulate, focused, they‘re the things this guy is not.

HOYER: Well, let me say, Chris...

MATTHEWS: I mean, just watching objectively...

HOYER: Objectively, I won‘t...

MATTHEWS: ... he‘s not a great speaker.

HOYER: Let me say this. I like Dennis Hastert in the sense that when I‘m with him, I think he‘s a good guy. I like him. He came—he became speaker under unusual circumstances,as you know. He became the speaker really because Tom Delay decided he couldn‘t be elected speaker, and supported the speaker to take that place. And then they worked very closely together. But there seemed little doubt in our mind, on our side, that the person calling the shots was Tom Delay.

MATTHEWS: Do you think if you get to be majority leader, or are on the way to getting that in this election? Do you believe that the Mark Foley scandal should be a major part of the Democratic campaign this year?

HOYER: We have an agenda.

MATTHEWS: But I have to know about this one question, Congressman.

Should the Mark Foley scandal, as it‘s emerged, and the leadership role in it be a key part of your party‘s campaign message?

HOYER: Yes to this extent. One of the major focuses we have made is that this Congress has not held anybody accountable. We haven‘t held our members accountable and when they did, you‘ll recall, the Ethics Committee held Tom Delay accountable, two of their members were fired by the speaker, they were replaced by more friendly members and the rules were tried to be changed so that if the leader were indicted, that he would not have to step down as leader.

So they tried to cover-up. A cover-up and lack of accountability is a major portion of our campaign. We need to hold accountable the executive department, and we need to hold our members accountable for performing as the American public want them to do.

So, yes, certainly to that extent, this is a clear example of cover-up, a clear example of not holding people accountable, a clear example of putting politics before the protection of the people.

MATTHEWS: Has your Democratic caucus held Bill Jefferson of Louisiana accountable for the FBI finding $90,000 in his refrigerator?

HOYER: We did. We took him off the Committee.

MATTHEWS: And that‘s enough?

HOYER: Well, he has not been charged with anything.

MATTHEWS: well, neither has Denny Hastert. I mean, neither has Denny Hastert.

HOYER: Well, I‘m not sure I get your point.

MATTHEWS: Well, there‘s a lot of jump, jump up there for Hastert to leave from a party that won‘t ask Bill Jefferson to leave, and he is in a criminal investigation.

HOYER: Chris, you didn‘t hear me jump up and ask Denny Hastert to leave. We need to find out the facts. We need to find out who knew what, when they knew it, what actions they took and what accountability ought to be assessed at that point in time.

What I‘m saying is we have a pattern now for over six years under this Congress of a Congress that was unwilling to hold accountable the executive department and unwilling to hold accountable its own members and put its Ethics Committee on hold. I think that is a major issue for the American people. And I think this tragic event, the Foley event, an action which clearly should have been quickly addressed and resolved and was not is an example of what we‘ve been talking about, that the American people are going to understand. And I think they going to want to see a new direction in this country. They going to want to see a change of leadership.

MATTHEWS: Well, good luck in November.

Congressman Steny Hoyer of Maryland, number two Democrat in the House of Representatives.

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