CNN "Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Pramila Jayapal

Interview

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BLACKWELL: The House Speaker is promising a vote on the president's rework of the social safety net bill soon. But not before it gets a key score that will say if it is or is not fully paid for. And even if the bill passes the House there are serious roadblocks I had in the Senate.

Joining me to discuss is one of the leading proponents of the $1.75 trillion economic and climate bill, chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Representative Pramila Jayapal. Congresswoman, good to speak with you again. Thanks for spending some time with me. First on the timing of the vote. Do you have any more insight beyond soon what we're hearing from the Speaker?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Victor, it's great to see you. I think in terms of the timing, we are very, very close. It's just a question of if we can pull together everything that we need from the parliamentarian scrub in order to get the bill to the rules committee and then to the floor. So, I would say either tonight or first thing in the morning, but we hope tonight, and we're working towards that end.

BLACKWELL: OK, so you supported more than a week ago now the delay of a vote on the bill because moderates wanted, some would say demanded, a CBO score before they voted for it. The White House is preparing the party for potentially it will not be paid for as they promised if some of the calculations on taxation policy are off. Do you think if that is the case, you've got the moderate votes that you need to pass?

JAYAPAL: I do and let me just be clear that the agreement that we inked a couple weeks ago with our colleagues, our five colleagues, was not for a CBO score, it was just for additional fiscal information that would make them comfortable that generally the top lines were the same.

Now, there were some things we already knew. For example, we knew that the IRS provision, for example, was going to be underestimated. Remember, Victor, that the revenue pieces of this come from the joint committee on taxation, so we already got the estimates on the revenue side from the JCT.

The CBO is really about the spend side, the investment side. And so, those are the titles that have been coming in pretty regularly. Those are actually CBO scores which is fine, that's not actually what was required. And I think at this point we have all of the titles in with the exception of Ways and Means, and what we have seen is that they are absolutely consistent. And, of course, the Ways and Means side is consistent with the revenue side that JCT has already given us.

BLACKWELL: And just to be clear, you believe you got the votes in the House to send it over to the Senate.

JAYAPAL: I do, absolutely. And I trust my colleagues' commitment that they would vote for this pending this fiscal information.

BLACKWELL: All right, let's talk about the Senate side now. Because Senator Manchin has said to our Manu Raju today that he's not sold yet on voting to begin debate on the legislation. Here's what he told Manu.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I just want to see basically the score and what they put out. I haven't seen it. I don't know what they found. I've seen the text to a certain extent but I just haven't seen the final bill. So, when the final bill comes out, CBO score comes out, then we'll go from there.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You haven't made a decision on whether to vote on the bill?

MANCHIN: No. Actually, I'm still looking at everything, absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Your reaction to that, that the Senator is not even ready yet to say if he wants to begin debate.

JAYAPAL: Well look, I think Senator Manchin has been negotiating in good faith. Obviously, there are differences. There are things we don't agree on, but I do think he's been negotiating on this bill with the White House for five weeks now. And I think a vast majority of the bill is preconference. It does need a CBO score in order for the Senate to begin debate. So that's -- to me that's not a terrible what he's saying.

I have full confidence that Senator Manchin is going to support this bill that he has now spent time negotiating, and I think we will get it across the finish line and hopefully to the president's desk in time for Christmas. Because we really need to make sure that people across the country are getting the help that we have promised them on the campaign trail and now in this bill.

BLACKWELL: You're confident he will support the bill, even with paid leave, something he said should not be with the bill and his concerns about inflation. What's the basis for your confidence?

JAYAPAL: Well, the basis of my confidence is that the framework that was agreed to that the President presented and said he was confident he could get 51 votes, that is the baseline that I think will be supported. Now there are a couple things, Victor, in this bill, and paid leave being one of them, that Senator Manchin -- that was added, that we added in the House and Senator Manchin has not signed off on.

And to that I would just say there are some very strong Democratic women Senators in the Senate who I think are going to make the case. And hopefully they can convince Senator Manchin that this is an important thing to do for families across this country, for women across this country, and hopefully that will stay in.

[15:45:00]

But the vast majority of this bill has been pre-conferenced, pre- agreed to, and so I don't expect that that will change.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about Congressman Gosar. You co-sponsored the resolution that censured him, also stripped him from his two committee assignments. After that vote the Congressman retweeted the video that depicted him killing Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez and attacking the President. Should there be further action against Congressman Gosar?

JAYAPAL: Look, I think we took the action that we could take. I firmly believe that somebody should not be able to serve in the Congress if they are tweeting out videos, animated or not, about killing a colleague.

If you were in the airport, Victor, and you threatened to kill somebody, whether it was a joke, whether you meant it or not, you threatened to kill somebody, you would be locked up like that. And I don't believe that here in Congress we should have to put up with that violence. I don't think the country should see what happens here in Congress as the further incitement of violence across the country.

I think that is absolutely wrong, and I think it's outrageous that Kevin McCarthy has been silent on this issue as Alexandra Ocasio- Cortez said yesterday, what is so hard about saying this is wrong?

BLACKWELL: Yes, what we did here from the Minority though was that this vote sets a precedent. That if Republicans take control of the House in 2023 after the election that the members would have to get approval from the majority to keep their committee assignments.

Are you expecting retribution and was that potential -- is that potential -- was it worth the vote?

JAYAPAL: Well, let me say this. We have to do what is right. If a colleague here on the floor of the House threatens to kill in an animated video, puts out an animated video, you know, killing another member of Congress and attacking the President of the United States, we have to do what is right.

Now, I also think that we are going to make sure that Republicans don't get the majority, but we can't shy away from this kind of violence. It is a culture of violence. It's a culture of violence particularly levied against women, and particularly against women of color. And there is no precedent for this.

Nobody has ever done what Paul Gosar did, and I don't believe that anyone on our side would ever do such a thing. So, let's just be clear, this is absolutely out of the ordinary, should not consider a norm. And should not be, you know, expected and unfortunately, I think my Republican colleagues that voted no, the vast majority except for two are condoning violence not only in this body but across the country. BLACKWELL: Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, thank you for your time.

JAYAPAL: Thank you, Victor.

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