CNN "Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Adam Schiff

Interview

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ACOSTA: And joining us now, a member of the House Select Committee investigating January 6th, Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff. He's also the author of the new book "Midnight in Washington: How We Almost Lost Our Democracy and Still Could." A very thought-provoking read for everybody.

Congressman, I want to talk to you about your new book, but first let's dive into this ongoing investigation. This week, your committee will begin the process to hold Steve Bannon in criminal contempt. I can't imagine a scenario where he decides all of a sudden to comply. But legal experts say this could take months if not years to make its way through the legal system.

Congressman, you have seen this movie before. You know how this game is played and you know that playbook all too well. But to be real with the viewers, what are the chances that you will get this opportunity to question Steve Bannon, do you think?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): I think the chances are actually very good. And if we were going the route of civil litigation as we had to do during the last administration because during the last administration, the Justice Department was essentially serving the needs of Donald Trump, not representing the public interest.

And they were not about to prosecute people for covering up for Donald Trump. But it's a new world now. We're not going to be, you know, choosing to go the civil route. We are right now on Tuesday night going to be taking up a criminal contempt report. It'll be taken up subsequently in the House of Representatives. It will be sent to the Justice Department for prosecution.

And that is a far swifter, far more serious remedy. And the fact that if the Justice Department prosecutes Steve Bannon, other witnesses will see they will face real consequences including jail time and potentially stiff fines. That is a way of getting people's attention.

So, you know, Bannon's an important witness in his own right, but it's also important to send a message that the rule of law is back and people are going to need to pay attention. ACOSTA: And I asked the former White House counsel for President

Nixon, John Dean yesterday what, if anything, we could read into people like Bannon not wanting to talk to your committee and I want to play his answer for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN DEAN, FORMER NIXON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: I think we have to be careful about what inferences we draw from non-appearance or non- testimony. But I think Bannon is up to his eyeballs. I think he's a vital witness. I think he could lead directly to Trump or those closest to Trump. And I do believe that the indications are that Trump is much more involved in this whole thing than we think he was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Do you agree with that Congressman Schiff? I mean, if Steve Bannon were watching right now, what would you say to him directly in terms of this question of whether he should cooperate?

SCHIFF: Well, he needs to cooperate because we're not fooling around and we will refer him for prosecution and we will expect the Justice Department to do so. We'll present it to the grand jury.

[17:04:56]

But, look, I think the biggest area where we still have so much to learn is around the president's conduct in the days leading up to January 6th, on that day itself. Steve Bannon was one of the president's closest advisers. He was predicting that all hell was going to break loose on January 6th. So, he clearly has relevant information to share with the committee and we're going to make sure that he does.

ACOSTA: And your committee has said that the former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, the former Defense Department official Kash Patel are engaging with the committee. I mean, you know, after work this evening I hope to engage with a glass of red wine. I mean, congressman, what does that mean engaging with the committee? It doesn't sound like much.

SCHIFF: Well, no, look. We are trying to demonstrate that we're going to every length to secure people's testimony without having to prosecute them. But at the end of the day if they're not going to cooperate, we will do exactly what we're doing with Steve Bannon.

We tried to secure Jeffrey Clark's cooperation. He was unwilling so we subpoenaed him. If our engagement doesn't lead to the testimony of these witnesses, then we will also take them up on criminal contempt charges. So, that's the plan. No one is off the table. No remedy is off the table. And we feel a real sense of urgency.

ACOSTA: And I want to ask you about your new book detailing the insurrection because while Republicans now downplay what happened that day, you detail how in the moment they acknowledged the threat. This I think is mind blowing. Here's an excerpt from the book. You write, "You can't let them see

you, a Republican member said to me. He's right, another Republican said. I know these people, I can talk to them. I can talk my way through them. You're in a whole different category.

I thought at first I was oddly touched by these GOP members and their evident concern, but by then I had been receiving death threats for years and that feeling soon gave way to another. If these Republican members hadn't joined the president in falsely attacking me for four years, I wouldn't need to be worried about my security, none of us would."

Congressman, I mean, history will long remember that Republicans did not abandon Trump after the insurrection. But take us back to that moment. What was going on there? Can you talk about who those Republican members were? And why that moment was so important for you and why it's so important to this overall story that you tell in the book.

SCHIFF: Well, I wanted to try to bring the reader inside that chamber and show them what it was like to be, you know, told by the Capitol Police you need to get out your gas masks. I'll tell you if you need to get on the ground and then pretty soon, you need to get out, to hear the thudding of walls and the breaking of windows as these insurrectionists were trying to get in.

And I was hanging back. There was a real kind of scrum at the door of the chamber to get out. And I did have these Republicans express their concern, and not just Republicans, but my Democratic colleagues as well over my safety.

But what I'm referring to there is initially I was touched, but the feeling soon took place -- took its place, and that was anger over the fact that these Republicans were pushing out this lie about the election. The folks that were climbing outside the building, climbing on the building and beating police, they really believed the big lie.

But these insurrectionists in suits and ties in the chamber, they understood it was a big lie. And to me that was unforgiveable. I will tell you this. As I was walking out of the chamber, I was walking with a different Republican member, and he had a pin on, I didn't recognize him and I asked him how long have you been here, and he said 72 hours.

He was newly elected, and this is what he was going through. It was a harrowing day, and it just infuriates me and alarms me that even now after we see what those lies have wrought, people like Steve Scalise can still not bring themselves to tell the truth about the election. And that means we're continuing to be at risk.

ACOSTA: And, I mean, we're showing the video right now, we have the story you were just telling a few moments ago. And yet you still have some of your colleagues on the Republican side referring to these insurrectionists as tourists. How do you deal with that? How do you deal with these members on the Republican side if they're not willing to just deal with the reality of the situation? How can they get work done? SCHIFF: Well, that's -- you know, that's the really hard thing. One of

the things that I write about, which was, you know, such a terrible realization during the Senate impeachment trial is that there wasn't any problem with the remedy of impeachment. There was no problem in how the constitution was drafted. It's brilliantly drafted.

But unless the members of Congress are willing to give content to those provisions or willing to, you know, employ concepts of right and wrong and the truth, none of it works.

[17:10:01]

None of it works. It doesn't matter how brilliant our constitution is, and how do I still work with people who are pulling out one of the foundations of our democracy, the idea that elections decide who will governor us, how do I work with them? Well, I have to work with them. I have to work with them on the Intelligence Committee to get the business of that committee done, but it's tough.

ACOSTA: Yes. But, congressman, do you worry though, and this has been talked about in recent days. This concern that if the Republicans take control of the House and the Senate, they take control of Congress after the midterms, that no matter who wins in 2024. If a Democrat -- if Joe Biden is re-elected, if another Democrat is running is elected, that those Republicans in control of the Congress, of the House, will not certify those results. Do you share that concern?

SCHIFF: I absolutely share that concern. I think if Kevin McCarthy is ever able to go near the speaker's office, he will do whatever Donald Trump tells him to do no matter how unethical or wrong. I tell the story in the book about a conversation I had with McCarthy that he would go on to misrepresent to the press. And when I called him on it, his answer was, yes, I know, Adam, but you know how it goes.

That, you know, he was -- this was well before Donald Trump. He was made for a moment like this when the Republican Party is not whetted to any idea of truth or right and wrong, when you say whatever you need to say, do whatever you need to do, truth isn't truth, you're entitled to your own alternate facts. We cannot allow someone like that to lead in the House or they will overturn the next election.

ACOSTA: All right, Congressman Adam Schiff, thanks so much for your time. Again, he is the author of the new book, "Midnight in Washington." We appreciate your time. Thank you, sir.

After five nights in the hospital, former President Bill Clinton is heading home. Our friend, Dr. Jonathan Reiner reacts to his release. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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