CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Eric Swalwell
Interview
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ACOSTA: A right-wing rally planned for this month has officials bracing for violence at the U.S. Capitol once again. Sources tell CNN U.S. Capitol Police will brief lawmakers next week on the security situation ahead of the so-called Justice for J-6 rally scheduled for September 18th in support of jailed Capitol rioters. We already know D.C.'s Metropolitan Police will be fully activated that week and there are discussions to reinstall the security fencing around the Capitol.
Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California joins me now.
Congressman, I can't believe, I hesitated for a moment there when talking about the fencing going up again potentially around -- I can't imagine that fencing would go up again, but my goodness, that's the world we're living in. As you know, this rally is organized by a former Trump campaign staffer and some of your GOP colleagues have held events supporting these jailed Capitol attackers.
Do you think we could see a repeat of January 6th just two weeks from today?
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): We can't, Jim. Although the ingredients still exist as far as these radical groups still mobilizing and aiming their hate at democracy, and former President Trump stoking them and my colleagues in Congress continuing to embolden them by propagating the lies. But here, let's talk about what this rally celebrates. It celebrates cop killers. And you know what, this is America. They can peacefully assemble.
They can celebrate whatever they want, but Americans should know that in a couple of weeks, Republicans are going to come to the Capitol to celebrate cop killers. And these are the same people that tell the other lie. Because there's twin lies right now that are literally killing us, the lies about the election and the lies about the vaccine. So these unmasked individuals celebrating cop killers, creating, you know, more and more mutations that are threatening our kids will be in Washington, D.C.
We just have to make sure that if they are ready to get violent that we're ready again in a better way than on January 6th to defend the Capitol. ACOSTA: Yes. And the other lie about January 6th is about what took
place that day. I mean, there are those lies as well, you're right. Let's talk about the January 6th --
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[16:20:05]
SWALWELL: Yes, Jim, these are -- this isn't Martin Luther King in Birmingham jail that they're, you know, going to try and break out. They go to the jails in D.C. to try and help people that abused cops like Officer Michael Fanone and Danny Hodges and Sergeant Gonell, and Harry Dunn, the heroes of that day.
So we have to remind people every day that, you know, they are celebrating people that beat cops, people that were a part of the circumstances that killed a cop and we have to remind Americans that. Otherwise they will seek to erase it.
ACOSTA: And let's talk about the January 6th Select Committee. The committee wants the phone records of several Republicans preserved, including the House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy. I'm sure you saw this past week, McCarthy has warned phone companies not to cooperate. As a matter of fact, you have seen this because you said that this was the equivalent of snitches get stitches. What does it say, though, is these telecom giants yield to McCarthy's demands?
SWALWELL: That they were intimidated, and that McCarthy, you know, has effectively, you know, broken the law to intimidate witnesses. Look, we're a country of law and order and when a lawful subpoena is served on a company, if they don't think that they should have to turn over the records, there is a process for that. And they can go to the courts and the courts will ultimately rule. But if this is just a standard subpoena that happens in the everyday course of business as these companies are used to, then they should honor it.
And for Kevin McCarthy to do this, one, it shows that he's got a consciousness of guilt, but, two, it also shows that he's willing to use his power to intimidate companies suggesting that if he's ever speaker of the House, they'll pay. And as I said, when I was a prosecutor, where I came from, I prosecuted people for much less with much less evidence and on a much smaller scale. So I hope the Department of Justice is looking at this.
ACOSTA: And there is also speculation of -- about a Trump 2024 run. That's been heating up. I'm sure you've seen that. There is this comment from Trump loyalist, Congressman Jim Jordan, that is making the rounds. Let's watch.
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REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): President Trump, he's going to run again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think so?
JORDAN: I know so. I talked to him yesterday. He's about ready to announce after all these craziness in Afghanistan.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And an official in Trump's office told me, quote, "There's no announcement that's imminent, and he did not tell Representative Jordan that he is running," but despite that denial -- we should also mention we've reached out to Jordan's office for comment, but despite that denial, what do you think of another Donald Trump run I guess in this -- you know, in this area of January 6th and everything else that we've been talking about?
I suppose he could come back potentially and inflame things further.
SWALWELL: If Donald Trump runs again, he will lose again, but he will again incite, assemble and aim a mob at the Capitol to try and overturn the results of the election. That's why we worked so hard to impeach and convict him in the Senate, and we came close. And while he was not convicted in the Senate, and he is able to run again, I do believe, Jim, he was convicted in the court of public opinion.
And Americans recognize that he's so detest democracy and the rule of law that he never again can be trusted with the power that we've vest in our presidency.
ACOSTA: Can I follow up on that? What does it say, though -- would you be disappointed if there aren't any charges brought against the former president for his actions not only on January 6th but leading up to January 6th, twisting the arms of --
SWALWELL: I'd be disappointed. Yes.
ACOSTA: Election officials and so on?
SWALWELL: I'd be disappointed if the recent charges were not brought was that prosecutors just wanted to move on and sweep it under the rug. Look, if they independently look at the evidence they have against Donald Trump and cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, then that's fine. That's the independence of the rule of law that Donald Trump did not afford others as he rewarded his friends and punished his enemies.
But I really do not like this idea that we just need to move on and it's not good to bring charges against the former president. This is not any old former president. He was impeached twice and really worked hard to take a wrecking ball to the rule of law. So if independent prosecutors see charges there, they should treat him no better or worse than any other potential suspect.
ACOSTA: And Congressman, I know you know that your governor is facing a recall election in 10 days. It's coming up fast. Democrats are concerned that the Senate majority is in balance. Here's what Larry Elder, the top GOP challenger according to the polls, said about potentially filling a Dianne Feinstein vacancy. Let's listen.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY ELDER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL RECALL CANDIDATE: God forbid Governor Elder should replace Dianne Feinstein, that nobody's seen in weeks. And I'm told she's in worse mental condition than Joe Biden. They're afraid I'm going to replace her with a Republican which I'm most certainly would do and that would be an earthquake in Washington, D.C.
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ACOSTA: Congressman, in order to protect the Democratic majority in the Senate were Larry Elder to become the next governor of California, do you think it would be wise for Senator Feinstein to step down and allow Gavin Newsom to replace her in the remaining days that he has in office?
[16:25:15]
I know that's a hell of a hypothetical. But how concerned are you about this prospect of Governor Larry Elder could potentially put a Republican senator representing California in the Senate?
SWALWELL: Yes. We're just not going to let that happen, Jim, and that's why people in California should vote no on the recall, leave the other candidates blank. There's no one qualified and we're all in for Gavin Newsom. And it's also very rich that Larry Elder is commenting on somebody's, you know, mental capabilities.
You know, this is somebody who continues to push anti-vaccine propaganda in the state, and that's why we can't allow him or any other radical Republican to win because we would backslide in California where we're nearly 60 percent vaccinated and companies are opening again, our kids are back in school again.
We would see kids back to distance learning, back to working from home. Your vacations would be canceled, your conventions that you were looking forward to would be gone because California would be a petri dish like Texas and Florida if we voted anything other than no on the recall.
ACOSTA: And just for -- what is your read on the recall? Do you think Governor Newsom survives this?
SWALWELL: Yes. Yes. Because people recognize that what people are upset with are largely acts of Mother Nature. You know, wildfires, pandemics. But the governor has worked hard. We have a surplus that was returned to the people of California, whether it's traffic tickets being waived or rental assistance that has been disbursed or individual family relief. He's a pro-family, pro-working family governor, and I really believe, Jim, he's going to be the governor on September 15th.
ACOSTA: All right. Congressman Eric Swalwell, thanks so much for your time this afternoon. We appreciate it.
SWALWELL: My pleasure. Thanks, Jim.
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