MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Dick Durbin

Interview

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MELBER: We`re joined now by Senator Dick Durbin, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, leading this pivotal election investigation.

Thank you for being here.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): Glad to be with you.

MELBER: Did then-President Trump try to steal the election? And what witnesses and evidence is your investigation seeking?

DURBIN: Well, I can`t answer that question until we finish our work.

And our work involves documents, evidence that`s been cleared by the Department of Justice, and very soon some interviews of key people. That will happen in the next few days and weeks.

MELBER: Let`s look at some of the people reportedly of interest here, key witnesses.

You have got Mr. Meadows, who remains a Trump ally, was chief of staff in a key time, Mr. Rosen, who was at the DOJ, and some other of those kind of administration officials.

Whose testimony is key? And from public reporting, it would appear that Meadows and others joined with Don Trump to sort of break down the barriers that typically would try to insulate the DOJ and make it independent on matters like these elections.

[18:35:08]

DURBIN: I can`t tell you which person is a key witness.

Most attorneys would tell you it isn`t until they have taken the oath and start to testify that you start measuring the value of each and every witness. But I will tell you, we`re getting to the heart of the issue. And this Justice Department has told us that they are not protected by any privilege or protected in any way from giving us clear answers to our questions.

So this could be very candid and very much of a revelation. We will only know as we get into it.

MELBER: How does this probe relate with or even potentially overlap with the independent January 6 investigation that people have heard so much about?

DURBIN: I don`t know if there`s any connection. I wouldn`t assume it, but I wouldn`t rule it out either.

There are so many unanswered questions about what happened on January 6 in the White House, in the Oval Office with the president. I know there are those who reached out to him. Some of them have said so publicly at this point. But the nature of the conversation, the requests and his replies are still unknown.

MELBER: Something that has been discussed a lot and that I know you care a lot about is not only learning all the facts, but trying to improve and fortify the protections that we have to maintain our democracy and a functioning government.

And some of these things appear to deal with perhaps breaking the law of the Constitution. That is sort of one category, if you will. The others seem to be norms or traditions that this president violated. Do you view the end of this process, when you have, as you mentioned, gathered all the information, as a time for the Congress and the Senate to also look at things that might need to be better defined in law, if traditions don`t work anymore?

DURBIN: That`s always the case.

Each generation swears to uphold this Constitution and to protect this union. And there are different challenges at different moments in our history. We don`t know until we have seen the evidence, heard the testimony of these witnesses how far this former president went.

But we know he was a desperate man, from the conversation that was recorded that we heard with the Georgia election official. And it`s pretty clear this president was willing to go to great lengths, even to kind of in a circumspect way challenge this official and say that, if he didn`t play ball, if he didn`t cooperate, he would pay a price.

So I`m not sure what we will get into. But I don`t know another moment in history when we had a rogue president who`s disputing the outcome of an election, who was reaching out in every direction to every person he could think of to try to make his case.

MELBER: I also want to get in while we have you, as a powerful Democrat, with some of these other economic issues.

Senator McConnell was speaking out today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): This is an extremely important bipartisan bill. To try to truncate an amendment process on something of this magnitude I think is a mistake.

If the majority leader files cloture today, I will be encouraging my colleagues not to invoke cloture on Thursday. My best advice to the majority leader would be slow, but steady wins the race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

DURBIN: It`s a time-honored Senate tactic known as slow-walking.

And it`s designed to drag things out as long as humanly possible, until everybody`s just had it. And what we`re up against is a promised August recess with our families. Many of us are looking forward to it. Well, it is unfortunately being eaten away by this strategy.

But so be it. We have got work to do.

MELBER: Yes.

DURBIN: And we`re going to stay here. And Senator Schumer`s made that clear.

MELBER: And, finally, your work on student debt. What should we expect there?

DURBIN: Good news.

We had a bipartisan bill today. Senator John Cornyn of Texas and I have introduced a bill which restores bankruptcy as an option for student debt. That has been gone for years. And we hearken back to the period where, once the debt was 10 years old, 10 years old, at that point, you could go to bankruptcy court and to be discharged from that obligation.

For some people, that is the only rescue possible for them. They`re so deeply in debt, with all the principal and interest that`s been building up, their lives have been compromised. And we heard from one of them today.

So, we got a possibility. And in the meantime, we`re also -- fair warning to the schools out there. You just can`t give away taxpayers` money in these student loans, have the students default, and walk away with the profits to college and university. You`re in this too. You have got some skin in the game.

We say, if they are notorious for the loans that they have made and the default rates, they`re going to pay some money back to the government.

[18:40:00]

MELBER: It`s such an important issue and one that affects so many households, and yet can get lost. So, interesting to hear you`re working on, Senator.

And I will tell viewers, you just talked about a reform that might put people on par with corporations. How many big companies benefit from bankruptcy law? As you`re explaining, it`s been kind of a black hole where regular people, even very young people, don`t even get that same option.

So, I`d love to keep up with you on that work, as well as following the Judiciary investigations. Appreciate your time tonight.

DURBIN: Thanks, Ari.

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