MSNBC "All In with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Madeleine Dean

Interview

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HASAN: Let`s see what happens. Joyce Vance, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

Congresswoman Madeline Dean is a Democrat from Pennsylvania and a former impeachment manager. She joins me live now. Congresswoman, as a former impeachment manager, what are you thinking when you hear about the scope of Mark Meadows` efforts to help Trump overthrow the election?

Wall Street Journal reporter Michael bender writes in his new book that Mark Meadows had helped introduce Trump to DOJ attorney Jeffrey Clark who was putting together a secret plan to oust Rosen, the acting A.G. and forced Georgia to overturn its results. Mark Meadows seems to be an integral to all of this, was he not?

REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): Thank you for having me. I`m joining you from my car. I apologize. I`m in between summer storms here in Pennsylvania in my district. And I just left a roomful of Montgomery county young Democrats. They are so eager to learn more about what happened, what failed, who`ve stepped up and served and who did not.

And so, Mark Meadows, what a deep, deep disappointment. But you can see what happened here. As you pointed out in your reporting, this is his fourth Chief of Staff. Trump was -- his circle was shrinking, the pool of qualified people was shrinking. And so, he put people around him who were willing to do his bidding.

And what these tapes reveal is another set of data points. And I have a feeling we`re going to see a White House whether it`s a chief of staff or Mr. Trump himself with a full-time job of calling people, elected officials, state election officials, legislators trying to overturn the election. Mark Meadows -- it`s gravely disappointing and of course, we`ll need to hear much more about these phone calls, e-mails, and others trying to persuade people to say the election was fraudulent when 60 courts or more said it was not.

HASAN: Yes. Congresswoman, how do you view the Former Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen? Some Democrats have hailed him as a kind of courageous whistleblower, but he didn`t come forward during the impeachment hearings in which you were a manager, did he? In fact, Rosen testified before Congress earlier this year and was asked whether Trump asked him to interfere in the election, and he dodged that question. Have a listen.

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REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): Prior to January 6, were you asked or instructed by President Trump to take any action at the department to advance election fraud claims or to seek to overturn any part of the 2020 election results?

[20:15:08]

JEFFREY ROSEN, FORMER ACTING U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, Congressman as I just alluded to in your prior question, I can tell you what the actions of the Department --

CONNOLLY: No, sir. No, sir. Mr. Rosen.

ROSEN: I cannot tell you consistent with my obligations today about private conversations with the president one way or the other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: What do you make a former Acting AG Jeffrey Rosen, Congresswoman?

DEAN: Thank you for asking. And I want to reserve judgment. And I want to point out two things. On the one hand, he came before -- voluntarily, he came before Senate Judiciary and offered hours and hours of what I am sure is going to be very valuable testimony.

Like you, I wish he had come forward sooner. But you have to remember, this is a change of administration from the Trump administration who treated the Department of Justice as its own personal political law firm to do its bidding under A.G. Barr and others.

And so, the transition to Biden and Merrick Garland, it was Merrick Garland and His department of Justice that just, I guess it was in the last month, freed people to testify, no cloud. So, I`m going to reserve judgment and try to understand why it is that Mr. Rosen didn`t come forward sooner. But I certainly thank him for doing two things, coming forward now and holding the line when the President of the United States urged him and his deputy to simply call it corrupt and leave the rest to me and my Republican Congressman friends. Mr. Rosen held the line there.

HASAN: Yes. One last quick question. Will we ever see, do you think, criminal charges against Donald Trump and his top aides? And if not, aren`t we saying to Americans, to the world, that yes, somebody is beyond the law in America? And also, aren`t we just risking another coup attempt in the future?

DEAN: I don`t know the answer to your question. I certainly know that we have many folks looking at criminal charges. And it sure seems as though charges should be brought in many cases and in many levels. But what this all points out is something else that happened this week. And I want to compare and contrast value system between Democrats who in the face of Mr. Cuomo`s difficulties, troubles, and behaviors, came forward after they saw the independent A.G. report and said he must resign. He does not represent the values of a public servant. He created a toxic work environment. He sexually harassed members of his staff.

Democrats came out including the very President of the United States and said you got to resign. What have Republicans like Mark Meadows done over the course of the past six years in the face of the corruption and indecency and alleged illegal matters around a president?

HASAN: That`s a very good point.

DEAN: Look at them surrounding him still, holding up him still, isolating or attempting to insulate him from the corruption, indecency, and criminal charges that he should face.

HASAN: Yes, it`s mind-boggling. It is truly mind-boggling.

DEAN: Yes. You take a look at these parties --

HASAN: Congressman Madeleine Dean --

DEAN: Thank you. Thank you. It`s just -- it`s reveals values. You don`t need to look much farther than that.

HASAN: Thank you so much for your time tonight. I appreciate it.

DEAN: Thank you very much. Good to be with you.

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