CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Chris Murphy

Interview

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TAPPER: All right, Kylie Atwood, thanks so much.

Let's talk about this now live with the Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. He's a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, good to see you.

Should the U.S. be sitting down with the Russians while the Russians continue to attack the United in the cyber and election interference realms?

[17:20:03]

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): United States shouldn't have any fear of talking to our adversaries or enemies, we should be engaged in much more substantive and frequent consultations with our friends and allies. But we should be talking to the Russians, we should be talking to the Chinese, we should be talking to the Iranians.

As Kylie mentioned, there are very important lines of cooperation that we have to be engaged in with the Russians. We have complicated nuclear treaties with the Russians that need to be enforced and implemented. We have similar interests when it comes to Iran and the future of their nuclear program. We probably have similar interest in Yemen.

So, listen, we've got to be able to fight them on the ground in which our interests are adverse. But we also have to find lines of communication.

TAPPER: But they're literally attacking us. I mean, critical pipeline operators have reported more than 220 cybersecurity incidents since May. We know Russia's behind lots of the attacks against our infrastructure in the U.S. How concerned are you about the vulnerability of our critical infrastructure?

MURPHY: Well, I'm incredibly concerned. And I may be worried most that the private sector doesn't understand how deeply under threat they are. Right now, we're considering a massive increase in funding to the agencies in Homeland Security that work with the private sector to make sure that we're, you know, picking up these attacks in real time.

We only have a handful of government sensors that are deployed all over the country on critical infrastructure. We need to do better. We still have voluntary standards in place for many critical industries, like the power sector. They're reluctant, the private sector is, to have any enforceable cybersecurity standards. But the consequence of that is to make the entire country incredibly vulnerable.

So, we need more cooperation with the private sector, we need more funding to protect them. And then, we should develop offensive capabilities as well. I mean, we shouldn't be shy about making sure that Russia knows that if they're going to come after us, we can come after them in the same way. That will have a deterrent effect.

TAPPER: Let's turn now, if we could to the big news from Capitol Hill, especially from the Senate side infrastructure. Negotiators say that they have struck a deal. I know this bill is not as big as you and other progressives want it to be. Will that keep you from voting for it, though?

MURPHY: Well, it certainly won't keep me from voting to move to the bill. That's our first vote. And I expect to be able to support it.

There's a couple details that many of us want to get worked out right now. But I believe in this process. Yes, it's a little bit more cumbersome to pass a bipartisan bill and then move forward on a larger bill that's potentially supported only by Democrats. But this is the President's priority. Joe Biden was elected to try to rebuild trust with Republicans, to find areas of agreement when he could and we could, that's what the American people want.

So, well, that means we got to work a little bit harder to pass multiple pieces of legislation, I think it'll be important to be able to get a bill, $500 billion in critical infrastructure funding for roads and bridges, highways that Republicans sign on to as well. That'll be good for the country. TAPPER: In terms of that 3.5 trillion budget reconciliation bill, do you even have 50 votes for that? It doesn't seem like Manchin or Sinema have come on board.

MURPHY: I think we still have to, you know, work out the details of that proposal. Remember, that's spending over 10 years.

And what we're trying to do here is fundamentally tip the balance of economic power in this country away from the billionaires who have been helped by multiple tax breaks from Republicans to regular people, right? We want to give people affordable childcare, we want to put tax breaks in the hands of poor people and middle class families.

Yes, that is expensive, but so was the giant tax break for billionaires passed back in 2017. That was about the same size, and 80 percent of that benefit went to the top 1 percent of Americans. I don't think we have 50 votes yet on that package. But I think there'll be a lot more willingness to get to that compromise once we passed the bipartisan piece.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about Afghanistan, because obviously President Biden has withdrawn almost all U.S. combat troops from Afghanistan, except for a few left behind to guard the embassy and the airport, this wars, the longest war that the United States has ever waged.

You and several colleagues have introduced something called the National Security Powers Act, which would require much more congressional involvement in wars. If this had been law, would the United States have been in Afghanistan for 20 years?

MURPHY: It's a good question. Of course, Afghanistan was, you know, the one fight that was clearly authorized by the 2001 authorization of military force because we were going straight after Al-Qaeda. But very quickly that war became not against Al-Qaeda, but against the Taliban. The American people never authorized war against the Taliban.

I'm not sure most of my constituents supported the fact that we were having already expelled Al-Qaeda from Afghanistan not now taking war against a group that actually didn't have designs to attack the United States. So, yes, if our bill passed which further cracks down on the ability of the executive to fight a war without congressional authorization, it's probable that the Afghanistan war would have ended the minute that Al-Qaeda was sort of, for all intents and purposes, defeated inside that country.

[17:25:16]

TAPPER: Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, thanks so much for being here. Appreciate it.

MURPHY: Appreciate it.

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