CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Mike Turner

Interview

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TAPPER: That's right. Some have already been killed by the Taliban.

Phil Mattingly, thank you so much.

Joining us now to discuss the withdrawal from Afghanistan and more, Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio. He's on the House Armed Services and Intelligence Committees.

Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

So, you supported President Trump's decision to withdraw American troops from Afghanistan by May 1st of this year when he announced it. But you also say now that President Biden has abandoned Afghan forces.

[16:20:02]

How so?

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): Well, you have a very big difference between what the Trump administration was doing and what the Biden administration was doing. The Trump administration was in active negotiations. The anticipation was with -- you know, the offering that a pullout was going to be -- to occur, that there could be negotiations where the Taliban could come to the table and a settlement could be reached.

The Biden administration where the president has said, we're not going to run for the exits, actually ran for the exits in the middle of the night. I mean, what has happened here is a real travesty. It's almost like a surrender as opposed to a withdrawal.

The Afghan military and the United States military were working hand in hand. And then when we abruptly leave, they're not given the baton fully. There's no real transition, there's no plan executable that was given to them.

Even the Afghan soldiers that you just played the video of them being murdered --

(CROSSTALK)

TURNER: -- it reportedly was that they ran out of bullets. Clearly, the plan wasn't in place for success, and that's what we really needed.

TAPPER: Yeah. I mean, the only thing I will say, I'm not taking issue with what you're saying, but the peace talks that were going on that Zalmay Khalilzad was leading, they didn't include the Afghan government. It was just between the U.S. and the Taliban. So I think a lot of people in the Afghan government felt like that was a recipe for disaster, too, in a way.

TURNER: Right. Well, you don't know what the outcome of those negotiations would've been. Would they have been successful, would they not have been successful? But the one thing that we do know, abruptly pulling out is not going to be successful. And it's going to put at risk not only United States but also Afghans.

The military is not prepared. We didn't help prepared them. We didn't give them a plan and now, we're in a situation where it's going to be more unsafe for Afghanistan and probably more unsafe for the United States.

TAPPER: Well, let's talk about what Phil was just reporting on, the Biden administration saying that it's going to relocate some of the Afghan allies who worked with our military and push them to a base in Fort Lee in Virginia, U.S. Army base. This is part of the larger effort to remove thousands of Afghan allies from the country before they get slaughtered by the Taliban.

TURNER: Right.

TAPPER: Do you support this?

TURNER: For sure.

TAPPER: I sense one of the hesitance -- hesitancies of the Biden administration is what you might expect, you bring 100,000 Afghans or however many ultimately are asking for safe harbor, and who knows what you have in that group of 100,000.

TURNER: Right, there's no question there has to be a vetting process. And even on the House this week, there's going to be a bill that's going to expand the eligibility for people for the special immigrant visas. But we have here is individuals not just that are risk because the United States has left and at risk because the Taliban might be seeking them. But they're at risk because they helped the United States.

TAPPER: Right, yeah.

TURNER: They were those who assisted us, and because of that, they placed their lives at risk and we need to help them.

TAPPER: And so, how many do you think should get visa? I think right now about 9,000 have completed the process. There are about 19,000, you know, with -- in various stages of the process applying for the pipeline. Do you think all of them should be approved, assuming they've asked some vetting or --

TURNER: Obviously, there's got to be a process. Not all of them need to come to the United States.

But the bill that's coming to the House floor does increase by thousands the number that are currently eligible. But I think the issue that we probably need to look to more with the administration is what are we going to do not just to make certain these individuals are safe, but what are we going to do to make sure that this transition results in the Afghan people and the United States being safe?

TAPPER: Would you be okay with these individuals coming to your district in Ohio? I mean, these are people who risked everything for us, but I -- you know, there's a degree of concern obviously.

TURNER: Well, I'm very comfortable with the vetting process and the special immigrant visa process, that's going to be in place, and the fact that these people are individuals already by their assistance to the United States have certainly pledged their loyalty, which is what is threatening their lives.

TAPPER: Today, the United States along with allies in Europe and Asia blame China for a series of ransomware attacks, including the massive hack of Microsoft. You're on the House Intelligence Committee. China's not facing any punishments from the United States as of right now, not even sanctions.

Is that a mistake? What do you think the U.S. should do?

TURNER: Well, definitely, this is an area that is going to be the challenge for the Biden administration. And right now, they don't have a coherent policy and they're going to need to come to a clear policy where there is a deterrent factor. Where in other words, people will have, you know, penalties and actions against them based upon hacking that occurs here.

Of course, it's Russia and China are both the nations of which the president has identified are sources of hacking in the United States and asking for, as you said, ransomware. This is going to be a difficult one because it's not just that these are private actors. These are state actors that are supporting these private actors and making certain that we hold those states accountable in ways that make a difference so that they will prevent this is what is going to be most important.

TAPPER: But how do you do that? Obviously, people talk about sanctions. I mean, I'm not suggesting this, but one proposal is the United States needs to be more aggressive with cyber hacking. I mean, do the lights need to go out in St. Petersburg for an hour to show Russia, hey, we're serious?

Again, I'm not proposing that. But what do you think works?

TURNER: Well, you know, even if that was the solution, we certainly wouldn't be able to discuss it on CNN.

[16:25:00]

TAPPER: Right.

TURNER: The president's going to have a smorgasbord of options in front of him which are going to include, as you just indicated, offensive measures. There's defensive measures also. There is also the world opinion in which we can operate and educate people as to what they're having. Bringing these things out into the public is probably one of the most

important aspects because as they try to operate where, you know, they have the cover of the Internet or anonymity, then there is some doubt. But bringing forth the information so it's clear that they're undertaking these actions, that also has a big impact.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about the current levels of inflation. You've criticized the Biden administration for the inflation is that currently it's at its highest point in 12 years. The White House says it's just temporary. It's just temporary.

President Biden said he's calling on Congress to pass the spending deal, infrastructure, the budget proposal because the president says those two plans will keep prices low and stable.

What do you think?

TURNER: The government spending never decreases prices. I mean, it obviously has an inflationary impact. And you just have to balance that to what's going on in the economy at the time.

Now, so far, we have some inflation that's happening in the economy as a result of the hangover, if you will, of the effects of what COVID did in our economy. You know, the trucking industry, other delivery, supply chains in which we see inflationary impacts.

But the infrastructure bill is important to do. Everyone sitting at home knows the conditions of the roads and bridges and highways that need to be done.

TAPPER: Yeah, it's embarrassing.

TURNER: But at the same time, these extra trillions and trillions of dollars that are not necessarily infrastructure, we've heard wild numbers between $3 trillion and $6 trillion additional, those do have an inflationary impact. You can't continue to spend and not have inflation. And the president needs to rein in some of this unnecessary spending.

TAPPER: It sounds like your mind is open to the bipartisan infrastructure bill. Is that fair?

TURNER: We need to do it, absolutely.

TAPPER: Oh, okay, great.

Congressman -- it's just interesting. I didn't know you had that position. Congressman Mike Turner, Republican of Ohio, thanks so much for being here today.

TURNER: Thank you.

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