MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with James Clyburn
Interview
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REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Thank you very much for having me, Rachel.
MADDOW: I know that you pick your fights carefully and that you don`t jump into every fight willy-nilly and you know your power with this administration and you know your power in Washington.
Can you talk to us about the decision to make this public call on President Biden that he needs to endorse a change in this rule so voting rights can pass with just 50 votes?
CLYBURN: Well, as you just mentioned, I said when I made my statement that you don`t have to get in front of a microphone in order to do the kind of negotiations, to make a kind (ph) of endorsement that need be made. You can do it on the telephone.
And I do believe that this is the kind of issue that needs to be going one- on-one with. I`m pleased to hear the vice president to whom the president has given this responsibility is, in fact, having those discussions with members of the Senate because we all know that the filibuster is not in the Constitution. It`s not a law. It`s a tradition.
And traditions means the past. In order for us to look to the future, we must begin to look at what is necessary for this great country to continue its movement towards perfection. That`s what we`re all about. Not a perfect country, but a country in search of perfection.
And we need to do that by voting rights via HR-1 and HR-4, the John R. Lewis Voter Advancement Act.
MADDOW: Congressman Clyburn, I know that you are close with the president and I know that you have said that you`ve spoken directly with Vice President Harris about this. I know you have also, over the course of this voting rights fight, spoken directly and done work with Senator Joe Manchin, the centrist West Virginia senator who has been such a fulcrum on this point -- the question of what he is willing to do and how he is willing to approach this is potentially determinative in terms of whether or not the Democrats in the Senate are able to actually act.
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How open is the door that you are pushing on here? How much resistance is there to this idea? How strong are the arguments that are being made against the kind of reform that you`re talking about?
CLYBURN: Well, I have had extensive conversations with Joe Manchin. I like Joe Manchin. We`ve been friends for a long time.
We used to do a lot of these kinds of things together, just like I did with Joe Biden. So, both of us have developed a great deal of patience with each other. And so, I think that Joe has made me a little bit sensitive to the filibuster. I just wanted to get rid of the whole thing, but he has convinced me that there is a place for extended debate on legislative issues.
I am hopeful that I can convince him that we ought to treat constitutional issues the same way we treat budget issues. We move the budget forward without this filibuster application so as not to threaten the full faith and credit of the United States of America. And we ought to move forward on constitutional issues when it comes to the filibuster.
So, the filibuster I think has its place, but not when it comes to voting and other constitutional issues. So, we`ll see where we go from here. I am hopeful that Joe Manchin will do what I know that he is capable of doing and that is the right thing.
MADDOW: Hearing you say that you are hopeful about that is going to change a lot of people`s, I think, sense of despair on this issue. I think a lot of people worried about democracy, very worried about voting rights, have felt like there is no -- that this is an impasse, that there`s no way around.
Hearing you talking about those conversations, hearing you express hope in this issue, hearing you be specific in terms of what you`d like the president and vice president to do, it feels -- it feels like a path.
Thanks for helping us understand it tonight, Congressman. It`s always an honor to have you here whenever you can be here.
CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.
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