CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Christopher Murphy
Interview
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SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Well, listen, I think it's very difficult when both sides, the Netanyahu government and Hamas, feel that they are getting political benefit by staying away from the negotiating table.
I have conveyed my thoughts to the Biden administration that they should be working as hard as they can for a ceasefire. I just don't see any benefit to U.S. security or Israeli security to keep this barrage up when Palestinian kids are being killed inside Gaza. That's not helping to secure Israel in the long run.
So, listen, I think the Biden administration is pushing for a ceasefire. I think the reality is that the sort of alignment of politics in the Netanyahu government and the incentive system that Hamas has to keep sending these rockets into Israel makes it difficult for the United States to try to be persuasive here. TAPPER: Do you think that the Biden administration is doing everything they can to push for a ceasefire? It doesn't sound like you think they are?
MURPHY: Well, you know, I've made my feelings known to the Biden administration. They, you know, have been engaged in a flurry of phone calls and meetings. They've got envoy in the region.
My belief is that the Biden administration is working to achieve a ceasefire. Again, I just think we have to understand right now that the Netanyahu government, for whatever reason, believes that they are better off continuing this campaign. And Hamas is going to continue to send rockets into Israel, so long as Israel is knocking down buildings inside Gaza.
TAPPER: Are you telling me that you think Netanyahu is continuing to press on with the offensive in Gaza for political reasons? Or do you think he's doing it for security reasons?
MURPHY: Listen, I can't get into Benjamin Netanyahu's psychology. What I know is that he certainly is believed for a long time that military offensives can secure Israel. I think experience tells us that well, it may give you some short term peace. Ultimately, it just feeds a grievance culture inside the Palestinian communities that guarantees long term unrest.
But I also know that there's no doubt that he is reliant on a coalition that does not support in many respects a Palestinian state. And so, when your partners in government are not actually looking for a two state future, it does dictate some of the decisions that you make.
TAPPER: There's a $735 million weapons sale between the U.S. and Israel that was approved by the by the Biden administration before this recent outbreak of violence began. It's now under consideration by Congress. The sale of this point probably cannot be stopped. But there are Democrats who have been talking about freezing it right now, unless Netanyahu agrees to a ceasefire. What do you think?
MURPHY: So I haven't been briefed on this sale yet, and so I want to learn more about it. I don't know that that tactic is necessarily going to convince Netanyahu to engage in a ceasefire.
[17:20:11]
But let me say this, listen, I think we are going to have to use whatever leverage we possess with both the Palestinians and the Israelis to try to get us back on track to a viable Palestinian state. And our first task is to get the ceasefire agreed to. And I think our second job is to, you know, try to once again, reposition ourselves and our historic role as a mediator between Israel and the Palestinians.
TAPPER: As you know, the Democratic Party is really quite split when it comes to support for Israel. There are those who are stalwart supporters of Israel, and there are those who refer to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians as apartheid. I think Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez used that term. Do you agree with Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez?
MURPHY: Well, I think the narrative here that sort of Democrats have shifted on the issue of Israel misses the point. I mean, Democrats have always been for two states. What has shifted is the position of the Netanyahu government and the Republican Party who now seem to be positioned in a way that makes a Palestinian state almost impossible in the long run.
So, yes, it does mean that Democrats now or maybe more willing to engage in criticism of the Israeli government, but that's because the Israeli government's position has changed the Democratic Party's position, which is supporting a Jewish state in the Middle East. And a Palestinian state has not changed. It's just the reality on the ground the Middle East has.
TAPPER: While I have you here, I want to ask you about the January 6 Commission. Today, Republican Senator John Thune, who's the Senate Whip for Republicans, he said he wasn't sure there are enough Republican votes to establish the commission, which would mean there aren't even 10 Republican votes, because House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy has come out against it. Is it possible this commission won't happen, that 10 Republicans won't vote for it?
MURPHY: I mean, this is just extraordinary. I mean, what are Republicans are afraid of? Why do Republicans not want to know what led to an attack on the Capitol which led to a loss of life, which almost interrupted the transition of power? What are they so afraid that this commission is going to find out?
So, I'm just stunned by the fact that we can't get enough votes to just have a simple inquiry as to why this country was overrun by individuals who were intent on essentially ending our democracy as we know it. This shouldn't be partisan.
I mean, yes, I get it. The people who stormed the Capitol were Trump supporters, but nobody here who loves democracy should affiliate themselves with people who are trying to end this hypocrisy that we live in today. So, let's see.
I don't know that his prediction is true. I'm going to have conversations with my Republican colleagues over the next few days and see if we can at least guarantee enough Republican votes in the Senate to get it passed.
TAPPER: The key phrase in what you just said, nobody here who loves democracy. That's regrettably kind of an important clarification.
Senator Chris Murphy, Democratic Connecticut, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
MURPHY: Thanks, Jake.
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