NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Bernie Sanders
Interview
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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you very much. Happy Father's Day to you.
CHUCK TODD:
Appreciate that. Look, you said on Monday that you weren't going to support this bipartisan infrastructure deal as it stands right now. What would it take for you to support this deal, particularly if President Biden starts to sign off on it? What would it take even if you don't love it?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, Chuck, look, what we have got to do in these budgets is address the crises facing the American people. It is true that our roads and our bridges and our water systems and our wastewater plants are crumbling, and we need to invest in them. As I understand it, the so-called bipartisan plan really only provides about 25% of the money that the president asked for, about $580 billion. But the point goes beyond that, the working people of this country understand, Chuck, that for decades we have ignored their needs while the very richest people in this country have become richer. So we have a situation right now where people throughout this country cannot afford childcare. People cannot afford -- elderly people cannot afford hearing aids or dental care. We have a disaster in terms of climate impacting this country right now. How do you go forward right now in this moment in history and not address the terrible climate crisis that we face and transform our energy system? How do you not deal with housing when 18 million families are spending 50% or more of their limited incomes on housing? And the list goes on and on. Rich get richer, working people are struggling. It is time we paid attention to the needs of working people. And when we do that, when we deal with climate, when we deal with infrastructure, when we deal with home health care, when we deal with childcare, we can create millions of good paying jobs. That is what the American people want. That's what we've got to do.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you comfortable with a two-step process, where you do -- you noted, this is 25% about of what, of what President Biden asked for. Is it worth it, in your mind to take what you can get in a bipartisan way, especially if that's the way you can get Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to get on board a Democrats-only bill that may tackle the care economy as you just outlined?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, look, as I said, what is in the bipartisan bill in terms of spending is, from what I can see, mostly good. It is roads and bridges and we need to do that. That is what we are proposing in our legislation but in much greater numbers. One of the concerns that I do have about the bipartisan bill is how they are going to pay for their proposals. And they're not clear yet. I don't know that they even know yet. But some of the speculation is raising a gas tax, which I don't support, a fee on electric vehicles, privatization of infrastructure. Those are proposals that I would not support.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you get that -- at the end of the day, do you think this ends up passing as a -- by raising the deficit? Is that something you're comfortable with? And then Democrats have to go it alone and possibly raise taxes on their own? Is that where this is headed?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, when you talk about taxes, let us also be clear, and I think the average American, whether you're Democrat, Republican or independent understands there's something absurd, that a time of massive income wealth and wealth inequality, when the very rich are becoming much richer, when two people own more wealth than the bottom 40% of America, that you have billionaires out there who pay zero, not a penny, in federal income tax. Large profitable corporations pay nothing in federal income tax. So what the president has said, he doesn't want to raise taxes on people making $400,000 or less, I agree with that. But you know what? In order to lower the cost of prescription drugs, in order to deal with paid family and medical leave because we're the only major country on earth that doesn't provide that, yes, we are going to have to ask the wealthy and the powerful to start paying their fair share of taxes.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to go back, because you kind of ducked the question the first time, would you support or at least vow not to kill the bipartisan deal if you got a commitment from the president and some of those centrist senators to support a larger attempt, a sort of a part-two Democrats-only reconciliation bill?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, Chuck, I don't know that anybody could give you an honest answer to that because nobody really knows what is going to be in this bipartisan agreement and how it is going to be paid for. So if it is roads and bridges, yeah, of course we need to do that, and I support that. If it is regressive taxation, you know, raising the gas tax or a fee on electric vehicles, or the privatization of infrastructure, no I wouldn't support it. But we don't have the details right now.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you about Obamacare, the Supreme Court ruling this week. This is the, the third one. And I even heard Republican senators say, "Okay, no more. No mas." They're not going to try to kill Obamacare anymore. You were a reluctant supporter of it. You wanted, you preferred something bigger, Medicare for All. Where is your priority now? Making Obamacare closer to your vision on Medicare for All, lowering, you know, doing things like that? Or do you still think in the future Obamacare should be scrapped and replaced?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, it's not -- Obamacare has done a lot of good for a lot of people. That's, that's clearly the fact, and I support that. But at the end of the day, Chuck, we are the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee health care to all people as a right. We are spending roughly twice as much per capita on health care as the people of any other country, and 90 million of us are uninsured or underinsured. We pay, by far, the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. We don't have enough doctors and nurses and dentists, especially in underserved rural areas. This is not a system that is working. We pay a fortune, we don't get good value. My own view is that we must move to a Medicare for All, single-payer program. And by the way, there is growing support to at least, right now, expand Medicare to cover dental, to cover hearing, to cover eyeglasses. It is outrageous that millions of seniors have trouble eating because they can't afford dentures.
CHUCK TODD:
And very quickly, there's a campaign by some groups, actually, that are very supportive of you throughout the years, that are calling on Justice Stephen Breyer to retire. Among one campaign ad, "It is time for Justice Stephen Breyer to announce his intent to retire from the Supreme Court." Do you think this pressure campaign is appropriate and would you like to see him retire now?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
No, I will let the judge make his own decision. I'm not going to tell him what to do.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Bernie Sanders, the independent progressive from Vermont. I appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us, thank you.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you very much.
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