NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Amy Klobuchar

Interview

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HUCK TODD:

I'm curious. Answer the question actually, both in terms of, first of all, does that help compromise? But you are a former prosecutor, is that an effective change?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

First off, we don't know what Senator Scott exactly is proposing. Those were just interviews, I want to see the language. Senator Booker is leading the negotiations on this bill. And I have so much faith in him to get to something meaningful. Every one of us on this panel, in our different ways, knows that we can't just say, "Oh, hey. Let's just have another study of this." We've had a lot of study of this. People are dying. What we need are changes. And that includes changes to standards and practices to look at reasonable and changing that standard to necessary force. That would make a huge difference. It is things like transparency. When you have good officers, but then you also have officers that have messed up a number of times and they're able to go to another department and you don't even know it. There should be data collected on that. You have to have more accountability. So, I'm not going to get ahead of the negotiations here, but the fact that we have senators on both sides that are seriously talking right now and moving forward on this is something we haven't seen forever. Because I don't want just one verdict, I want to see systemic change. What will be good for everyone, including the officers that testified against Chauvin, including the officers that protected us valiantly during the insurrection. We need to have a major change in policing in this country.

CHUCK TODD:

You know, Keith Mayes, you heard Jim Clyburn say that maybe this will be a Selma moment. And in fact, folks have asked, "What would Selma have meant if it hadn't led to the passage of the Civil Rights Act?" Well, what happens if we don't act on police reform this year?

KEITH MAYES:

We'll be right back here again, Chuck. I don't think this is a Selma moment because I don't see lawmakers in Washington, D.C. really trying to move on this. The Democrats have put together a really comprehensive bill. You know, who can be against the removal and the elimination of chokeholds? Who could be against the limitation of qualified immunity? Who could be against reducing the criminal standard from intent to reckless? I mean, all these are great, great bills. And I think the Democrats need to push back on Tim Scott, to put this on police departments and say that we don't want individual police officers to be responsible. We want the money taken out of their pensions. Why overburden municipal budgets, who get a lot of their money from sales taxes? We have to pay this exorbitant amount of civil judgment from the taxpayers, from the people of the cities. And so, we don't want to shift the burden from individual officers to police departments, who we have to rely on the people to pay that out. So no, I disagree with Clyburn. This is not another Selma moment because we don't see a bipartisan effort in Congress to move this issue forward. The Democrats are holding this alone. And I think they really need to push back on Tim Scott's counterproposal.

CHUCK TODD:

The last question on policing I want to ask here is to you, Commissioner Harrison. The traffic stop seems to lead to a lot of problems. Is there --is it time to revisit the traffic stop?

MICHAEL HARRISON:

Absolutely. I think, you know, minor traffic violations and those small things officers observe, it's time to rethink that. You know, when we have information about violent crime or serious crimes that have taken place or information about the person driving the vehicle, whatever violation they may have committed, you know, those traffic stops -- we certainly want our officers focusing on the more important things, which are violent crimes. It's certainly time to revisit when and how we do those traffic stops.

CHUCK TODD:

Senator Klobuchar, we mentioned at the top that you have a new book out on anti-trust, it's called Anti-Trust. It's on monopoly power. And look, it's about -- in many ways, it's sort of I think setting up what could be the breakup of big tech. There's going to be a big announcement by Facebook's oversight board having to do with the future of the former president, Donald Trump, and whether he can communicate on that platform. How much does that impact where you think Congress should go when it comes to dealing with big tech?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:

When you step back, you see that all this consolidation has been hurting us, hurting families, hurting workers. And yes, hurting our democracy, Chuck. And when you go back in time, and that's what I do with this book, I show the stories of people like Ida Tarbell, Ida Tarbell who took on Standard Oil. Or the woman that invented the monopoly board, who actually was against monopolies, to show that America has always stood up at some point. And right now with the tech companies, they are gatekeepers. They control so much information. It shouldn't be a surprise that we don't have an Instagram that developed bells and whistles that would've had more privacy rules or done something about misinformation, as you alluded to. Why? Because Facebook bought them out. Mark Zuckerberg, in an email that was now revealed, said, "Oh, they might be disruptive to us." Well, that's what tech is supposed to do. That's what competition's supposed to do, disrupt things. So, the book is really about the past and how we got to where we are today. It has over 100 cartoons. So it's fun to read. And then I have 25 solutions for the future.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, it is a well-researched book. You would think it's a tough subject. It's not. It's very readable. Thank you all for being on here, Commissioner Harrison, Professor Mayes. As always, sir, it's a pleasure to have your perspective on as well, and to you, Senator Klobuchar. When we come back, federal health officials end the pause on the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. But will the entire episode only add to growing vaccine hesitancy? The director of the NIH, Dr. Francis Collins joins me next.

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