NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Roger Wicker
Interview
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SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Thank you, Chuck. Appreciate it.
CHUCK TODD: And let me start with a study from the American Society of Civil Engineers. They gave an infrastructure report card to the country. Wasn't very good, C-. For the state of Mississippi was slightly worse. Bridges, by the Civil Engineers, were given a D-, drinking water a D. We know about the Jackson, Mississippi issue. Roads, a D-, overall a D+. How badly does the country and Mississippi in particular need a massive infrastructure investment?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Chuck, thanks for having me on. Let me take a minute, though, first of all. And your panel will probably be talking about the attack on the Capitol.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:I just want to say our heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of our Capitol Policeman, Billy Evans. He gave his life for his country. And I think I'd be remiss --
CHUCK TODD:
I'm glad you did that, sir.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- in not mentioning him.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, we are definitely going to honor him later, but I'm glad you said that. Thank you.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Right. Listen, I'm all for working with the administration on an infrastructure bill. And yes, we need it in Mississippi. And I voted for it as a state legislator and as a member of the House Appropriations Committee. And let me tell you, I think I can work with Pete Buttigieg. I spoke to him the day he was nominated. We've been trading phone messages for the last three or four days in an effort to talk about this bill. I think Pete and I could come up with an infrastructure bill. What the president proposed this week is not an infrastructure bill. It's a huge tax increase, for one thing. And it's a tax increase on small businesses, on job creators in the United States of America. And, Chuck, you made a statement that I just have to wonder about. You said, "It seems the administration is more eager to have bipartisanship than members of Congress are." How could the president expect to have bipartisanship when his proposal is a repeal of one of our signature issues in 2017, where we cut the tax rate and made the United States finally more competitive when it comes to the way we treat job creators? He reverses all that. And I'll tell you what. He says no one will pay extra taxes if they make less than $400,000 a year. That may be true. We'll have to see the details there. But under this tax increase bill, there are a lot of people making $100,000 and $50,000 that are going to lose their jobs because of the extra burden this plan would put on job creators.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, look, what they're talking about, though, is lowering -- is basically finding a middle ground between where the corporate tax rate was in 2017 and what the corporate tax rate is today. They would like to move it to 28 percent. I am curious, this tax cut that you guys put through in 2017, there were various promises that were made. That they would pay for themselves, hasn't come close to that. That it was going to produce 4, 5 or 6 percent growth. We didn't even get 3 percent growth. At one point, former President Trump said, "This thing's going to pay off the debt like it's water." Well, as you know, the debt is way up. So I guess, right, you look at this tax cut proposal, when most of the benefits seem to go to stockholders. You know, corporations didn't do what you thought they were going to do, which is take this savings and invest. They instead did stock buybacks. So, wasn't this tax cut kind of an economic failure?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
No, it wasn't at all. And until the pandemic hit in March of 2020, the tax cuts were working just as we expected them to. Unemployment was down, job creation among African Americans was up. Job creation among veterans was up. Among women in the workforce, there was more participation. The fact that we had lowered the tax burden on job creators, particularly small business, which is the job -- the great job engine in the United States of America, was working fine. Now, some of these predictions that you mentioned, I never participated in that.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
But what I said was you make us more competitive internationally, and we will create jobs. And we did just --
CHUCK TODD:
Well --
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- that.
CHUCK TODD:
-- let me ask you this. How would you pay for infrastructure? Where would you get the money?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Well, listen. I'm open to suggestion about that. But I have two bipartisan bills that I've introduced. Senator Stabenow is on an advanced refunding bill --
CHUCK TODD:
Right. I understand. Investing in municipal bonds, right? So basically debt financing?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- and Senator Bennet is on another bill of mine. But I'm absolutely up to looking at ways that, for example, Mayor Buttigieg's home state of Indiana did. They use private-public partnerships and things of that nature. But the very worst way to finance this is to put a major tax burden on small businesses that create the jobs in the United States of America and on all job creators.
CHUCK TODD:
So should big businesses --
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
So --
CHUCK TODD:
-- pay?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
I'm open to paying --
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you this.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
-- for this. We've got to pay for it.
CHUCK TODD:
How about big businesses?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
The worst way to pay for it is to tax job creators.
CHUCK TODD:
Should there be -- so I understand that. You want to carve out. But let's, you know, let's not conflate. Should the big businesses that benefit from smooth running roads and really good ports and airports that will improve delivery mechanisms, should they contribute something to our infrastructure? You've got a whole bunch of companies that pay zip into the federal government coffers.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
I'm all for looking at ways to pay for it. And let me just again say that states like our neighboring state of Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, they've all found a way, a fair way, that the public will go for to pay for roads and bridges. But when you talk about big businesses and you're saying we should raise their tax rate from 21 percent corporate rate to 28 percent, let me just tell you: that's going to cut job creation in the United States of America. And it's the very reason we lowered those tax rates in 2017. It's a plan that works. And if the president wants a bipartisan plan, how could he possibly try to get something passed that every single -- that repeals a bill that every single Republican in the Senate voted for in 2017? To me, I don't see the bipartisan gesture there.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me -- one last question here. Did you guys blow it? You had four years to do an infrastructure bill. You had the presidency, you had the Senate and the House for a bit. Did you blow it?
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
No. As a matter of fact, we passed infrastructure bills. The FAST Act, on two occasions. But yes, I would love to have passed a larger infrastructure bill. And I certainly hope we can do that. But I don't want to do it by raising taxes and cutting jobs for Americans.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Roger Wicker, Republican from Mississippi, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us. Thank you, sir, and a Happy Easter.
SEN. ROGER WICKER:
Thank you, Chuck.
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