MSNBC "All In With Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Chris Murphy

Interview

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SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Yes, you expect me to decipher this for you, Chris. I`m humbled.

HAYES: Well, it`s your job, Senator. This is what you do for a living.

MURPHY: So, listen, I think you were getting it right near the end of that monologue in that -- listen, the bottom line is, are we making a difference in people`s lives and you are not if you aren`t solving the climate crisis. You can build all the infrastructure you want, but if the planet is on fire, it`s not going to do much good 20, 30 years from now.

Similarly, in my state, we need infrastructure. We need better roads and rails and bridges. But if folks can`t afford childcare to get a job, then they can`t even sniff the train station. So, it is true that there`s a sizable group of us in the Senate who have made clear to leadership and the White House that we`re not going to entertain this smaller bipartisan package unless we are also moving forward on a budget reconciliation bill that pluses up some of the accounts in this bill they`re too small, passenger rail for instance, that includes significant climate legislation and attacks some of these issues with which prevent people from ever getting to the infrastructure which brings you to work like a lack of childcare.

And I was buoyed by what, you know, Speaker Pelosi said what the President said today, and even what some of my conservative colleagues in the Democratic caucus said. It does appear that we`re, you know, on track to be able to consider this package developed with Republicans and also consider a significant additional bill that will do all those other things.

HAYES: OK. I almost feel like I want to -- I don`t want to do this on camera, but that`s too late now. It`s like, part of me wants to pretend that I find this outrageous and that the reconciliation part is making me furious as liberal. But like, why are the Republicans going to go for this? Like, if this is the plan -- if the plan is to have your cake and eat it too and like, pass this one thing, but then all the other things they don`t like get past a reconciliation, like, what am I missing about why they`re going to vote for it?

MURPHY: Well, so right, I`m definitely the wrong person to answer that question but I can certainly engage in reckless speculation. And I guess my guess would be this. As Jennifer Rubin said in your prior segment, Republicans, you know, were kind of uncomfortable in voting against the American Rescue Plan and then not being able to go out and take credit for it.

HAYES: Good point.

MURPHY: They did it nonetheless. But, you know, there are a bunch of Republicans, not all of them, but many of them, you know, who actually do want to be able to go out and trumpet projects in their districts --

HAYES: That`s a great point.

MURPHY: And so, for many Republicans, this is an ability to, you know, put their name on a package and then be able to disavow parts -- other parts that they may not be as comfortable with. So, there is an ability for Republicans to have their cake and eat it too as well here.

HAYES: Well, that`s a great -- that is -- that is a great point and I hadn`t thought of it that way. And I think that I have been so locked into the zero-sum thinking which is McConnell-ism insurer, right? I mean, the McConnell -- the sort of McConnell theory of the case, from the first days of Barack Obama is that like, there are no win-wins to be had. That if you`re -- if the opposition party is successful in driving its agenda, that makes them more popular and it hurts you, right?

Prior to him, there was more of a sense, and not always, but a little more of a sense of like, you can find stuff that everyone gets a win out of, right. And so, what I`m hearing view is like, look, there are people that want to be able to vote for an infrastructure package and go home and say like that -- we built that bridge there.

MURPHY: Yes. And listen, I think there is a question as to whether McConnell has as much control over this caucus as he did, because you can certainly make that argument that if you are only looking at the politics of this, if all you care about is the defeat of Joe Biden, then you should sort of sit on the sidelines for everything.

But it may be that after four years of Trump, there are a bunch of Republicans who are actually interested in legislating, and that McConnell is no longer able to persuade all of his caucus to sit on the sidelines. And you`re frankly seeing that all over the place, Chris.

HAYES: It`s weird. I know.

MURPHY: I mean, you`re seeing an announcement today on police reform legislation. I`m still at the table on a background checks bill. You know, there`s more sort of conversation at the grassroots happening between the two parties than I`ve ever seen before. And I don`t know if that`s because Mitch McConnell was sort of winning the argument in the caucus.

HAYES: It`s a great point. And I think also, you know, I talked to senators a lot. I`ve been talking to senators. Like, I think even Republicans didn`t love coming in to pass judges and do nothing else. I mean, you know, I just -- and just as almost at a level of like, what am I doing with my life, I think there`s some of them that want to do something, feel like they`re making an impact.

MURPHY: Yes. It`s also not -- shouldn`t be lost on us that a bunch of the Republican senators that are in a lot of these discussions are not running for reelection.

HAYES: Yes, great point.

MURPHY: And maybe in the short run, that is also accruing to our benefit, you know, fast forward to the Senate that replaces this one. Without people like Rob Portman and others, things may look differently.

HAYES: All right, Senator Chris Murphy, thank you for decoding that for me. I appreciate it. Still to come, Rudy Giuliani`s commitment to the big lie catches up to him. Why New York suspended his law license. That`s tough.

Plus, the latest from Surfside, Florida where a 12 story condo collapsed overnight. Nearly 100 people are still unaccounted for. Vaughn Hillyard has the latest next.

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