NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Bill Cassidy

Interview

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SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

I think it's important to understand the nature of that vote. It was called two hours before it. There was no debate and no explanation from either side. It was a vote in a moment of time. And so, based upon what senators knew at that point and felt at that point, they then voted. But we will now have, hopefully, presentations from both sides, and we will consider the evidence as impartial jurors.

CHUCK TODD:

You have, you called -- right after the insurrection, you called it sedition, on the part of the people that broke into the Capitol and did what they did. What do you view as the former president's role in it?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

We'll find that out. If you will, you're begging me to come to a conclusion before the role, before the hearing. I will listen to both sides and be objective. So, Chuck, I'm sorry, but everybody wants you to commit to how you're going to vote --

CHUCK TODD:

No, I understand.

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

-- before you actually have the hearing. And so, I've been trying to studiously avoid doing so.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, let me ask it this way. Plenty of people interpreted that vote as saying, "Oh, there's -- look, everybody knows what the outcome of this, of this process is going to be." Do you?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

Do I what?

CHUCK TODD:

Know the outcome? Do you think the outcome is predetermined here?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

Do I interpret --

CHUCK TODD:

Yeah.

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

Oh. You know, everybody -- no, I don't. I think it depends upon that which is presented. Let's face, let's face it. The House did an incredibly poor job of building a case before their impeachment vote. The president wasn't there. He wasn't allowed counsel. They didn't amass evidence. In five hours, they kind of judged and boom, he's impeached. Now, I'm told that under the Watergate, under the Clinton impeachments, there were truckloads of information. Here, there was a video. There was no process. I mean, it's almost like, you know, if it happened in the Soviet Union, you would've called it a show trial. So, I'm hoping -- one, I'm sorry that that's the way the process went down because process is important when it comes to justice. And there was no defensible process there. But hopefully, they'll build a case and bring it to us. But again, process is important. And we have to see that process played out. And the president should have his counsel. That's just the way our system works.

CHUCK TODD:

I'm curious what you think is going on inside the Republican Party. Do you feel as if the state parties that have done some censuring of people like Liz Cheney, the governor of Arizona Doug Ducey, do you view these as sort of, they hang over the head of every one of you guys? And that if you somehow don't look pro-Trump enough, this could fall on you? What do you view these censure threats as?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

There are censure threats, but they will not determine the outcome of the next election. Our party right now is, if you will, being tried by fire. We win if we have policies that speak to that family sitting around the table, who right now see their jobs on the Keystone XL pipeline being cancelled by the left -- not because it lowers global greenhouse gas emissions, those will go up, but because it's become symbolism and they're cannon fodder on the war of climate change. If we speak to them in a way which addresses their concerns -- by the way, which also lowers global greenhouse gas emissions -- we win the next election. And that's where our focus should be, doing something good for the American people, and as a rule, good policy is good politics.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me move to Covid relief. You guys came in there with 10 Republicans, the bare number you need in order to avoid, you know, avoid a filibuster. If you're Joe Biden and you come in here, should, why should he meet you guys more than halfway? Is it incumbent on you to meet the Democrats more than halfway, in fairness, considering the Democrats control the Senate and they won the election?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

First, let's say that we all made it clear that we are willing to negotiate. That wasn't our end point, it was where we felt that, if you put things together, added them up, it was a sum which met the American people's needs. And why could President Biden believe it? He could believe it because when there was a Republican president and Republicans controlled the Senate, we passed five different Covid relief packages on a bipartisan basis with overwhelming margins. We had shown that we would negotiate and come to answers. He should also do it because maybe it happens to be the right policy. Maybe his policy might be counterproductive. I'm a doctor. I can tell you, sometimes a cure is worse than a disease. And if you read Larry Summers' editorial in The Washington Post this past week, it may be that this $1.9 trillion will make things worse, and I think that has to be a concern.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me ask you this. Do you think we went too small in '09 or too big in '09 with the stimulus?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

I think we got it Goldilocks, just right. The Congressional Budget Office is saying that because of the $900 billion that was on a bipartisan basis negotiated, there'll be 3.8% GDP growth in 2021. Now, when you have 3.8% GDP growth, which is, like, more than we've had for quite some time, coming out of a pandemic, you've done something right. And so, I actually think that we got it pretty good.

CHUCK TODD:

Your proposal by the way -- you were one of the senators that has been fighting hard to get aid to state and local governments, one of the few Republicans that have joined some Democrats. This counter-proposal of yours did not include state aid, and you have said, look, it is hard for you to get -- my guess is you couldn't get 10 Republicans to join you, if you did. If that is the issue, how, how do you come to a bill where you know you have the Democrats on the side of state and local aid here?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

You've got to look at facts. Now, the reason I said it would be difficult is that some states have done better in 2020 than they did in 2019. California has had record tax revenue. Now, my state's been hurt. Let's just say it. But New York, for all of their complaining, Governor Cuomo's complaining, has only had a 1.5% decrease in revenue. New Jersey, 0.5%. And nationwide, I think it's, like, 0.1% revenue decline, nationwide. Now, it's hard to build political consensus when there's only 0.1% revenue decline. If good policy is good politics, then maybe bad policy is bad politics. And if we're going to throw $350 billion at states when New York has had record increased revenue, some folks are going to scratch their head and say, "That's not justified. Let's think of a different way to do it."

CHUCK TODD:

Are you still willing to work with the Biden White House, if, if this deal ends up being on a party-line vote? Will this make it harder for you to work with them? Or, you know what, you'll be there for the next one?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

You actually have two different questions in that. I am absolutely willing to work with anyone if it's good for the American people. Because that's what we should all be about. We have conservative solutions. The more conservative values infuse public policy, I think, the better public policy is. On the other hand, the administration is showing very clearly they don't care if they have to work with us. They're willing to push things through even if someone like Larry Summers, a former Democratic treasury secretary, says it's boneheaded policy -- I'm paraphrasing. And even if we come in good faith with at least 10 and more that would have joined us, and they say they don't care. So, you got that -- it takes two to tango. Right now, I'm not sure we have the two to tango.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, I think that has been a challenge for this town for more than a decade, in fairness. Anyway, Senator Cassidy, Republican from Louisiana. Appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir. Thank you.

SEN. BILL CASSIDY:

Thank you, Chuck.

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