CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Dick Durbin

Interview

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Republican Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri announced today he will contest the Electoral College results when they're brought to a joint session of Congress one week from today, teeing up what should be nothing more than a procedural confirmation of Biden's win, doing it for whatever reason.

[16:30:09]

It will no doubt cause chaos.

Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, joins me now.

Senator Durbin, thanks for joining.

What do you make of Hawley's announcement he's going to challenge the election results, and how do you see this session playing out?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): Josh Hawley, the senator from Missouri, is also an attorney and a former attorney general.

I would ask him one simple question. What is the evidence you have to back up your claim that the votes should not be counted in any state? We know we have had over 50 lawsuits by President Trump and his friends. Every one of them has failed raising that question.

And when they took it all the way to the Supreme Court, they barely got it through the door before the court rejected it. So, there's no credible basis for objection. It is simply a political exercise.

TAPPER: How many Republicans do you think are going to join him?

DURBIN: I don't know.

I understand that Senator McConnell was discouraging the Republican senators from doing this. I don't know if others will join him to be part of the parade.

But it really does not serve our democracy. It is time for us to accept the reality. Joe Biden was elected president of the United States on November 3, and he will be sworn in on January 20. TAPPER: Hawley pointed out in his announcement that this has been

done before by Democrats in the House and Senate objecting to the results for Republican presidents.

Obviously, the context is very different, with President Trump rejecting reality, rejecting the fact that he lost, et cetera. It can't be compared.

But it is true that your former colleague Senator Barbara Boxer objected, I believe, in 2004, trying to bring attention, she said, to the issues, the election issues in Ohio. In retrospect, was that a mistake?

DURBIN: No, of course, a senator has a right to do that. I'm not arguing with that.

But let's just basically ask the question, is it reasonable? Is it sensible? Can he make a case? She was arguing about voter fraud in one state. So be it. She has the right to do that.

But, at this point, the president has been hanging out for weeks refusing to acknowledge the obvious. Every lawsuit he's filed has failed. Rudy Giuliani's crazy theories have taken him nowhere.

And the people he surrounds himself with for a chorus of yes-people haven't really been successful in contesting any state. Republican elected officials in state after state have stood up and said, I actually voted for President Trump, but I have got to tell you, the election results did not end up being what I wanted. We lost.

Now, what is the basis then for Senator Hawley to make this objection?

TAPPER: He says he's doing it because there are so many voters out there who have concerns about the election.

DURBIN: If concerns are going to drive us in a political agenda, then I wonder if we're ever going to reach a point where people have confidence in what we're doing.

When the American people have spoken by seven million votes, electing Joe Biden over Donald Trump, they made it clear they want him to be president, when they gave him the same electoral votes as President Trump had four years ago, and he called them a landslide.

It's clear that he was elected. Are there those who were concerned about Trump's victory? Well, I was concerned, but I accepted the obvious. The American people had spoken then and they have spoken this time as well.

TAPPER: Let's turn to what's going on the floor of the Senate, with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell saying that he doesn't see a process by which the $2,000 stimulus checks that the House of Representatives pushed, the Democrats in the Senate and others, including Josh Hawley, have been in favor of, as well as President Trump. Is there any chance, you think, that McConnell could be convinced,

given the fact that a majority of the Senate, including five Republicans, are in favor of it, to bring this to the floor just as a clean up-or-down vote, increase the stimulus checks to from $600 to $2,000, yes or no?

DURBIN: I would like to give Senator McConnell a radical idea. Maybe he would consider it. Let the Senate vote, period.

The House passed the major with 44 Republicans supporting it, all but two Democrats supporting it. Send it to us. It is the only way to give $2,000 to individuals who are struggling through this pandemic and the economy it brings with it.

There's one way to deal with this, a vote on the floor. Either McConnell wins or he loses. I think he's going to lose. I think enough Republicans are going to step up and join us, as they did in the House of Representatives.

But blocking this vote, arguing that we have got to try some other substitute with far-ranging issues and have nothing to do with this particular matter, is just not fair. Let's use the Senate for the purpose it was designed, to look, deliberate and to vote.

TAPPER: So, 47 of the 52 Republican senators, I think, either haven't come out in favor of these checks or oppose it.

I want you to listen to one of them, Republican Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, and his explanation as to why he opposes it. Take a listen.

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SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): We do not have a global macroeconomic depression under way at all. So, it makes no sense to be sending this out to everybody who has a pulse.

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TAPPER: His argument is that this money -- this bill would give money to people who make I think it's under $75,000 a year who have not necessarily lost income because of the pandemic, who have not necessarily lost their jobs.

And he would prefer a program that gives the money to the people who have lost their jobs, lost income, and are more needy.

What's your response?

DURBIN: Well, it's ironic that our Republican senators have come around to progressivism when it relates to government spending and tax policy, after giving a $1.5 trillion tax break to the wealthiest people in this country. But let me get back to the point. What we have done with this COVID

relief effort, both in the early stages with the CARES Act, as well as the most recent COVID relief, is to send the money in to groups of people qualified by virtue of their income. In this case, if you're making less than $75,000 a year, you're entitled to a payment.

If your family is making less than $150,000, they're entitled to the payments. And we don't draw the line and ask people to sign affidavits. The reason is, we want the money in their hands quickly and spent into the economy quickly to give us some hope, some lift, so the economy gets back on its feet.

It could have been done more precisely, but we have decided that the impact on the economy is even more important. I'm supporting it. I know some people will receive it who might not need it. But an awful lot of people who are desperate for this help are waiting to hear the good news that the $2,000 payment is coming their way.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Dick Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, thanks so much.

Happy new year to you, sir. Appreciate your time today.

DURBIN: Thanks, Jake. You too.

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