CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Dick Durbin

Interview

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[15:35:00]

TAPPER: In our MONEY LEAD today, we know the sticking points getting in the way of a final agreement on a stimulus package in the U.S. Senate. Republicans say they want liability shields that would protect companies from getting sued by workers over any COVID-related issues. Democrats say they want more funding for state and local governments as well as checks for individual Americans.

But now Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says it might be time to set those issues aside to get something passed. Joining me now is someone who has been at the negotiating table, Democratic Senator from Illinois Dick Durbin, who is the Senate Minority Whip.

Senator Durbin, good to see you as always. We've been hearing for days from lawmakers that an agreement is around the corner. Nothing yet. When do you think you're going to have a stimulus package?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Well, Jake, it really depends on an agreement on the issue of liability. Senator McConnell made it clear months ago, six months ago that he had a red line here. He wouldn't consider any bill that didn't include immunity from liability for major corporations and businesses. So we've been watching carefully to see the frequency of lawsuits that have been filed using COVID-19 as a basis. Personal injury lawsuits, medical malpractice suits.

And during the course of the year 2020, with 16 million people, at least 16 million infected by COVID-19, on average we've seen three lawsuits per state. It really isn't a tsunami of lawsuits.

It's a hard case to prove. When were you exposed to the virus? Who was responsible for it? So we're trying to do something that is reasonable that protects the public and gives incentives to conscientious businesses to do the right thing, but we don't want to go as far as Mitch McConnell suggested.

TAPPER: But Majority Leader McConnell as I understand it -- correct me if I'm wrong -- has said that the sticking points are money to states and localities -- the way Democrats want -- and these liability shields the way Republicans want, why not just put these two aside and pass everything else? Is that acceptable?

DURBIN: Because of state and local assistance is absolutely essential. If we don't give states, counties and cities some relief for their loss of revenue and the actual expenses of COVID-19, they are faced with some grim choices. Saying offer health care workers, law enforcement officials, people in the educational field. All of these things would be terrible to the economy in general, and basically unfair to these people who are struggling to get by.

[15:40:00]

TAPPER: So when the Democratic leader Chuck Schumer says that McConnell is trying to sabotage the deal by making this proposal to remove these two points of contention, you agree with him?

DURBIN: Yes, I do. I can tell you we've been at the table for weeks hour after hour after hour negotiating this. And the Democrats are at the table all committed to state and local government assistance. We have agreed to a dramatic cutback in the amount of money that is necessary just so the emergency relief for these units of government will be there. So it isn't just a casual item on the agenda, it's been a very important item.

TAPPER: Senator Bernie Sanders said that Democrats turned down a deal from the White House for $1.8 trillion because Schumer and Pelosi wanted $2.2 trillion. Now you're looking at a compromise deal of about half of the White House offered, $908 billion. We don't even know if we're going to be able to see that passed. Looking back, was it a mistake for Pelosi and Schumer to turn down 1.8 trillion?

DURBIN: There was some exuberance involved because an election was coming, and they were both bidding one another and trying to find common ground. They didn't reach that point.

But to return to those pre-election days and sentiments -- political sentiments is very difficult. We are looking at the reality now of a new president coming on board in just a few weeks. With President Trump leaving, we are trying to find something that we can agree to on a bipartisan basis, on an emergency basis through the first quarter of the year, coming up before us. TAPPER: Bernie Sanders -- Senator Bernie Sanders told me yesterday

that he's talked to conservative Republican Josh Hawley about adding back the provision -- or adding the provision of individual checks for Americans who are struggling. Is there any sign that that could be something that a bipartisan majority of the Senate could get behind if you have -- I mean that's really the gamut politically from Bernie Sanders to Josh Hawley?

DURBIN: But keep in mind that the cost of that $1,200 or $500 is, generally speaking $300 billion. The total cost that the Republicans have limited us to

is $900 billion for everything else. So if there is an effort to raise the total amount of the money and not take money away from something as basic as unemployment, PPP loans for businesses, or state and local assistance, I'd be open to it. But the Republicans really have to get off the notion that its $900 and nothing else.

TAPPER: The President has you know has been really focused not on the coronavirus pandemic, not on this relief package, but on trying to overturn the results of the democratic election. How concerned are you that even if you do achieve some sort of compromise that could pass the Senate -- that's a big if -- and that Senate Majority Leader McConnell will allow a vote on it -- another big if -- that Donald Trump will then walk into it and just blow it all up.

DURBIN: He could, and he's unpredictable. Who knows what the tweet of the day will be and whether it will be the same in the morning as it was in the evening, and vice versa, I just don't know. But we've received some signals from the White House that President particularly would like to send out those $1,200 checks. If he can talk Mitch McConnell into increasing the $900 billion, he may find takers both among Democrats and Republicans.

TAPPER: The President today promised to veto the bipartisan National Defense Authorization Act if Congress does not overturn Section 239, the Communications Act which has to do with social media companies, preventing them being sued over the content that users post. It's not clear if Congress has the votes to override a veto. How worries are you about this?

DURBIN: I'm concerned. This is the funding for the military of the United States, the men and women in uniform, as well as the resources they need to keep American safe. Section 230 on the content in digital media is a relevant issue, an important issue, and one I feel strongly about. But I would not stop funding the U.S. military over that issue.

TAPPER: Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, thank you. Good luck with this compromise. I don't need to tell you that Americans out there are getting very desperate and face, you know, hunger and face evictions. So everybody's counting on legislators to come together.

DURBIN: Thanks. Jake.

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