CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Bernie Sanders

Interview

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TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny in Wilmington, Delaware, thanks so much.

Negotiators on Capitol Hill are still trying to iron out a few major issues for a stimulus package, including liability protection for companies. Some lawmakers are firmly against it, including Senator Bernie Sanders, the independent from Vermont, who said it's like a get-out-of-jail-free card.

But Democratic Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, who's been part of the team negotiating the deal, told me he disagrees.

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SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Senator Sanders, respectfully, is not involved in these negotiations. And his characterization is just not accurate.

We are looking at trying to give some level of a time-out to allow states, if they want to put in place standards we have already, for example, in Virginia, put in COVID standards. That part of the discussion is vigorous and ongoing.

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TAPPER: Here to respond is independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Senator Sanders, what's your response to those comments by Senator Warner?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Oh, well, I have great concerns. And I share those concerns with the AFL-CIO and hundreds of organizations, who understand that, right now, workers around this country, especially in meat processing plants, have been treated absolutely shamefully.

Amazon, I think, workers in Amazon have developed some 20,000 cases of COVID. We don't know how many have died. What we need to do is to tell corporations that they have got to treat their workers in a way that is safe and healthy. They cannot be irresponsible.

And if they're -- they are irresponsible, there are going to be consequences. And if we go forward and we grant this type of immunity, what corporations are going to say all over the country is, we don't have to do anything for our workers. They can't do anything to us.

So, you're giving a green light for irresponsible behavior. That's something I don't want to see happen.

But, in addition to that, Jake, I have real concerns about this bill or this proposal, which we have not quite seen yet, to be honest with you, because it does not address the economic crisis facing tens of millions of families in this country.

[16:20:13]

We are right now in the worst economic shape since the Great Depression. And this proposal does not include that $1,200 direct payment per individual and $500 for kids that we desperately need in order to put working families back on their feet.

It would be a real help. We don't have it. I'm going to fight to see that we get that included.

TAPPER: Yes, it's not included in that compromise proposal right now.

I understand that you spoke with Republican Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri over the weekend. He is also saying that he wants that included and thinks the bill should be vetoed if it doesn't include it.

I wasn't aware that Josh Hawley was in favor of direct payments. Are there enough Republicans on your side on this, on the direct payment part of this, that it could make a difference, because, obviously, Republicans still control the U.S. Senate?

SANDERS: Well, that's what we're working on right now.

And, right now, I'm working with my Democratic colleagues to make it clear that we should not go forward unless we do what the American people want. Right now, Jake, as you well know, I mean, we got half of our people living paycheck to paycheck. Something like 20 percent of our population now is either unemployed or earning less than $20,000 a year. People are facing eviction.

Hunger is at a higher level today than any time in recent history. We have got to address those issues. And it concerns me very much that this bill is far, far, far less than the other proposals that the Democrats have brought forth.

TAPPER: Well, let me play devil's advocate for a second, because, look, I don't doubt your sincerity. And I don't doubt that this legislation could be much, much better for all the Americans in desperate need.

But the fact of the matter is, Donald Trump is still in the White House and will be in until January 20. Republicans control the U.S. Senate and at the very least will be in charge of the U.S. Senate until January 5, if not afterwards as well.

Are you making the good -- the perfect the enemy of the good?

SANDERS: No, I'm not.

Look, as you will recall, Trump himself has agreed in the past to, I believe, a $1.8 trillion bill, including these $1,200 direct payments. It's something that Trump has already supported.

We need -- what we need is a compromise. I know I can't get everything that I want. But this bill really is not a compromise. It gives the Republicans almost everything that they wanted.

And one of the interesting parts about it, as I understand it -- and I have not seen the proposal yet -- but Mitt Romney, who is one of the Republican negotiators, said that over $500 billion of this $900 billion in the bill is not new money. It's money being shifted away from the old CARES Act, money that has not yet been spent.

So we're talking about 350 billion or so new dollars, when Democrats originally talked about over $3 trillion in new money to help working families in this country. So, I don't think this is much of a compromise.

I think we have got to do a lot better and negotiate a lot harder.

TAPPER: Well, you talked about that $1.8 trillion bill that the White House, Steve Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, was working on with the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi. The Democrats walked away from that bill...

SANDERS: That's right.

TAPPER: ... because they wanted $2.2 trillion, and they walked away from $1.8 trillion. Was that a mistake?

SANDERS: That's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Here was a proposal much, much larger. Democrats said, no, that's not good enough. And now we're prepared to accept a proposal which has, I think, $350 billion in new money and which has, we believe, I believe, to the best of my knowledge, this corporate immunity language as well.

So, I -- that's my point here is that I don't think this is much of a compromise. I think the Republicans have probably got 90 percent of what they want. Our job is to fight and at least get a 50/50 deal.

TAPPER: Before you go, Senator, I want to ask you about the fact that president-elect Biden tapped Neera Tanden to head the Office of Management and Budget.

Last year, you accused her of belittling progressive ideas and maligning your campaign staff. She obviously takes issue and disagrees with that characterization.

You could be the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee if Democrats win these run-off elections in January. Where do you stand on Neera Tanden's nomination?

SANDERS: Well, we're going to give Ms. Tanden and every -- I hope, no matter which party controls the Senate -- every nominee of the president-elect, Biden, deserves a fair hearing.

[16:25:00]

All of the nominees have got to answer some pretty hard questions. And that's true from for Ms. Tanden. It's true for everybody else.

TAPPER: So you're not in favor or against right now? You're just going to give her a fair hearing?

SANDERS: That's correct.

TAPPER: Lastly, the fact is that your governor in Vermont is a Republican. Does that complicate the idea of you getting a role in the Biden administration, given that your Republican governor would replace you with a Republican, presumably?

SANDERS: No, that's not true.

Actually, the governor has said that he would replace me, if that were to happen -- and I don't know that it will. But if I became a part of the Biden administration, what the governor has indicated is, he would replace me with somebody who would caucus with the Democrats. TAPPER: Oh, OK. So, if -- so that is not a real excuse if they don't

actually offer you a position? The idea is -- because you will be replaced by a Democrat, theoretically?

SANDERS: Yes.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Bernie Sanders, thanks so much for joining us. Good to see you again, sir.

SANDERS: Thank you, Jake.

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