CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview with Congressman Adam Schiff

Interview

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BLITZER: We're following multiple breaking stories, including a source now telling CNN to expect a flurry of pardons from President Trump in the coming days.

This comes as the White House is dodging questions about reports the president may actually be considering pardons for his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and members of the first family.

We're joined by the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, California Democratic Representative Adam Schiff.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

If the president does indeed pardon, let's say, Rudy Giuliani or any members of his family, would you see that -- and I asked Preet Bharara this question -- as essentially an admission of guilt?

[18:20:03]

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): I certainly would view it that way.

I think millions of Americans would view it that way. If there was no belief in criminality, why would he think a pardon was necessary?

But, nonetheless, you can see the president trying to lay the foundation for that kind of an inherently self-dealing and I think corrupt act by suggesting that vengeful Biden administration bureaucrats might go after him.

So, you see him laying the foundation. And this is a president who, on the way into office, acted corruptly, and I think is determined on the way out to do the same.

BLITZER: In 2018, the president said -- and I'm quoting him now -- "I have the absolute right to pardon myself."

Some of his allies are actually pushing that he do just that. Can he go ahead and pardon himself before he leaves office?

SCHIFF: Well, he can try. The question is, will it be null and void? And I think the answer is yes.

He can say, I hereby pardon myself. But if he is brought up on federal charges -- and that's how that would be tested -- it would ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court. Are you allowed to be the judge of your own case? Is the president effectively above the law?

And I think any court should resolve that and would resolve that by saying, no, the pardon power does not allow a president to self- pardon, because to do so would make the Constitution a suicide pact. It would effectively undermine so many other provisions of the Constitution, including the one that requires the president to faithfully execute the laws.

But it hasn't been tried before because we haven't had a president corrupt enough to try it before. So, we will have to wait and see whether it gets tested in court if the president goes in that direction.

BLITZER: The White House, Congressman, wouldn't say today if President Trump has confidence in the attorney general of the United States, Bill Barr, after Barr debunked the president's election fraud claims.

What does that tell you?

SCHIFF: Well, I think the attorney general answered a question that many of us had, which is, there no line he is willing to cross to carry water for the president?

And, apparently, there was a line. And that was, the attorney general was not going to join completely fallacious claims of massive fraud following our election. Now, he is willing to do other things that are inappropriate and political and partisan, like this secret appointment of Durham as a special counsel, in an effort, I guess, to placate any members of the base that he will alienate by making the statement he did about the elections.

But, nonetheless, I think it tells you that the circle around the president that is willing to continue to engage in these monstrously false claims of fraud is a dwindling number of people.

BLITZER: And, as I pointed out yesterday, and I think it's very significant -- I will point it out again -- Barr actually said, it's not just the Department of Justice that found no evidence of widespread fraud in the election, but it's also the Department of Homeland Security, which investigated, found no evidence of widespread fraud either.

Before I let you go, Congressman, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, now wants COVID relief talks based on this $908 billion proposal put out by a bipartisan group of senators.

Does that proposal, do you believe, stand a real chance? And if it -- if you can't reach a deal, how do you explain to the millions of Americans out there who are about to lose unemployment benefits, might be kicked out of their homes, might not have enough money to put food on the table, how do you explain to them the urgent need to get money and get relief to them right now?

SCHIFF: Well, I think it does stand a very good chance of becoming a part of the government funding package to keep the government open that we have to take up within the next two weeks.

I hope and pray that we do pass a relief package that is based on what's set out in that bipartisan compromise.

And how you explain if Congress doesn't, well, that will be something that Mitch McConnell will have to explain to the country, because, right now, he is the number one impediment to getting to a deal.

And so the Democratic leadership has compromised by essentially agreeing to start from a blueprint that's less than half of what we had asked for. McConnell should be willing to do at least double of what he started out with, and then we'd have a deal.

But we will have to see whether McConnell wants to put a lump of coal in people's stocking this year. The reality is, Wolf, millions of Americans can't wait.

BLITZER: Yes.

SCHIFF: Millions of businesses will disappear and not reemerge next year if we don't help them now.

BLITZER: Yes, these stakes right now are so, so enormous.

Congressman Schiff, as usual, thanks so much for joining us.

SCHIFF: Thank you, Wolf.

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