NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript Interview with John Barrasso
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
That was when Democrat Barack Obama was in the White House. Now, many of the same senators you just saw are saying, "Don't wait. President Trump should get to choose Ginsburg's successor immediately." That does include my next guest. He's the chair of the Republican conference in the Senate. It's John Barrasso of Wyoming. Senator Barrasso, welcome back to Meet the Press. And before we get started on the politics, I want to give you a chance. What do you think Justice Ginsburg's legacy is in your mind?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Really a heroic and historic figure. This is a great loss for our country. You know, here in Wyoming we think of her as a trailblazer in so many ways because she had the Western spirit of grit and endurance and determination. She showed that every day. She was a role model for many. And you might not believe this, Chuck. But for young women on my staff who went into the law, she was an inspiration for many of them. She inspired a generation. And I think she is going to be long remembered for the trail that she blazed.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator, I want to get into the politics. Four years ago, you were emphatic on various ways you said it. You heard it in that list of clips. You would at different times, "I want to give the American people a voice in this." Why don't you want to give the American people a voice this time?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, first, let's be very clear. If the shoe were on the other foot and the Democrats had the White House and the Senate, they would right now be trying to confirm another member of the Supreme Court. What we're proposing --
CHUCK TODD:
You don't know that.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- is completely consistent, completely consistent with the precedent. What happened in 2016, and let's go back, we were following the Joe Biden rule. Joe Biden was clearly -- was clear when he was chairman of the Judiciary Committee. And he said, "When there is a Senate of one party and a White House of the other," and he said this to George Herbert Walker Bush, he said, "if there's a vacancy in that final year, we will not confirm." And that's what we did --
CHUCK TODD:
Senator.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- with Merrick Garland. But 29 times, Chuck, there have been vacancies in the year of a presidential election. And if both the White House and the Senate are of the same party, they go forward with the confirmation.
CHUCK TODD:
So, you know, I scoured -- I have scoured all of these 2016 notes looking for these footnotes that have been added now. You guys have this new explanation. Never once -- on the Senate floor, "When an election is just months away in 2016," you said that, "people should be allowed to consider possible Supreme Court nominees as one factor in deciding who they'll support for president. This shouldn't even really be controversial." Then you said, "This is not about the person. It's about the principle involved, and I want to give the American people a voice in this." Republicans have said there should not be a bitter political fight. "We have called on the president to spare the country this fight. The best way to avoid the fight is to agree to let the people decide." Senator, these are your words. Not once did you say, "Oh, it depends on what party the Senate holds versus the party of the president." This just sounds like a power grab, pure and simple.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, it is the Biden rule. And this is the way, this is the precedent of the country. You haven't had --
CHUCK TODD:
There is no Biden rule.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- Merrick Garland -- you haven't had since 1888 when a party of the Senate and the White House were of different parties that anyone was confirmed. And that was the situation with Merrick Garland. Chuck Schumer said the same thing at the end of George W. Bush's term, that if the vacancy occurred with President Bush, a Republican in the White House, and the Democrats under Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer in charge of the Senate that they would not confirm. But now when you have both parties in the White House and the Senate, historically the confirmation goes forward. And that's what's going to happen here. I'll tell you what's going to happen here. I'll tell you what's going to happen --
CHUCK TODD:
Senator, I want to play --
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- the Senate is going to be back in session and the president's going to make a nomination I believe this week.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand, look, I get that. But, Senator, nobody, nobody in the Senate Republican conference was arguing these fine footnote points that you and your other colleagues are arguing now. I want to play a clip for you from 2018 from Lindsey Graham. Lake a listen.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
If an opening comes in the last year of President Trump's term and the primary process has started, we'll wait till the next election. And I've got a pretty good chance of being the Judiciary --
JEFFREY GOLDBERG:
You're on the record.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG:
All right.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Hold the tape.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Senator, I guess the question is: Should viewers -- when should -- should viewers just not believe anything you're saying today because whatever you're saying today will change depending on the politics of the moment?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Well, I can tell you what's going to happen, Chuck. For viewers who are watching, the president is going to make a nomination. I believe it's going to be this week. And Lindsey Graham, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, we will hold hearings. And there will be a vote on the floor of the United States Senate this year. The president has a list of 20 potential nominees. He's mentioned several of them last night. And I think, I really do think that if the president really wanted to make a powerful positive statement by coming forth with a woman nominee, there are many qualified women on his list, somebody who could then be a role model for future attorneys, for young women and young men looking into the law --
CHUCK TODD:
Let me --
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- I think that would be the right move for this president, soon.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator, I want to just quote you back to yourself one more time. "We have called on the president to spare the country this fight. The best way to avoid this fight is to agree to let the people decide, give the people a voice." Why is it that this, this principle only matters when a Democrat is in the White House?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
It's not that at all, Chuck. If we did something different now, we would be breaking with the precedent that has long been established. That if the president and the Senate are of the same party --
CHUCK TODD:
What precedent?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- you move along with confirmation. But, Chuck, let me just say this one thing because you brought this up with Amy and Chuck Schumer last night. Look, Chuck Schumer's been very clear. The Democrats have been very clear. If they win the White House and the Senate, all bets are off. They are going to blow up the filibuster. They are going to use the nuclear option. They are going to stack the Supreme Court. They've talked about raising the number of members --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe that --
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- of the Supreme Court --
CHUCK TODD:
All right.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- even though Ruth Bader --
CHUCK TODD:
Senator.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- Ginsburg said it's a bad idea. She said it would politicize the court. And she said nine is the right number. You ask me if I believe it. The Democrats and Schumer have a war room. They have been at this for a long time.
CHUCK TODD:
Why --
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
These are the promises that they have made, including stacking the Senate--
CHUCK TODD:
So you have --
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
-- by making the District of Columbia. You asked the question --
CHUCK TODD:
You have no regrets? Yeah.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Go ahead.
CHUCK TODD:
But you have no regrets that Senate Republicans are going to look like hypocrites 44 days before the election for just a complete flip-flop to the average American? I mean, I know you're trying to come up with these caveats. Nothing about it makes any sort of sense to the average person.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
This is the consistent principle and policies that have been followed through the history of the United States when 29 vacancies occurred in years of presidential elections. We're going to be consistent with all of that. But you're right. There's an election coming up. Every Senate candidate and every senator speaks for himself or herself. As chairman of the conference, I have great respect for that. But each one is going to be called upon to make a decision in their role as advise and consent. The president is going to nominate, and we're going to vote this year, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Barrasso, Republican from Wyoming, number three in the Senate, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us. Thank you, sir.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO:
Thanks, Chuck.
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