CNN "Newsroom" - Transcript Interview with Chris Van Hollen

Interview

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Joining us now, Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. And Senator, no sooner did we learn that Lisa Murkowski is saying pump the brakes. Senator Alexander is saying he's okay with a Senate vote. So, boy, the math is getting pretty tough here for Democrats. What do you plan to do?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Ana, it's good to be with you. As Joe Biden said, we are still pushing hard on Republicans and we're really not relying on trusting what they might have said before. Almost all of them said in 2016 we should not move forward in a presidential election year, that of course when Barack Obama was president.

But, there of course, the American people and their constituents. And this is why Vice President Biden talked about the stakes in this Supreme Court choice, specifically with respect to the Affordable Care Act, the fact that the Supreme Court is taking up the Affordable Care Act case in mid-November.

And what Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump are trying to do through the courts is what they were unsuccessful at doing through the legislature. They failed by one vote in the Senate to destroy the Affordable Care Act. Now they're trying to take that healthcare away from the American people in the middle of a COVID-19 pandemic.

And so the American people need to be calling their senators. There are a number of elections this time as you know in swing states. So, we're going to continue to highlight the stakes in the selection.

CABRERA: Okay. So if you're pushing on some of the Republican senators, I wondering how you're doing that because we've heard pushes from other Democratic lawmakers primarily in the House at this point suggesting that if, you know, Biden wins, if the Senate turns over to Democrat majority come November, that Democrats should just expand the number of Supreme Court justices.

You have tweets like this from Congressman Joe Kennedy, III. "If he holds a vote in 2020, we pack the court in 2021." Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler tweeted something similar. Is that the plan?

VAN HOLLEN: So, Ana, our focus right now remains on trying to stop this abuse of power right now, to try to get another two Republican senators who will not want to face the wrath of their constituents.

Obviously, relying on people like Lamar Alexander, who some thought might want to retire with some dignity. Obviously we can't be counting on that. At the end of the day --

CABRERA: So who are you counting on? Who are the other two who might join Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski?

[17:10:01]

VAN HOLLEN: Well, there are still -- there are, of course, are number of Republicans, who again, have not weighed in on this. There are a number of key states like Cory Gardner. Again, I'm not banking Cory Gardner, but he's in a very, very tough race right now. And he cannot win without independent moderates voting for him.

So look, again, Ana, what I'm saying is we will use every procedural opportunity. We are calling on the American people to weigh in. If somehow they abuse their power and ram this through, then obviously we will consider all the alternatives available to us.

But right now we remain focused on trying to stop this abuse of power to strip away the Affordable Care Act, to take away women's rights, to take away worker's rights.

CABRERA: Okay. Here's what Joe Biden said last year. He said, no, I'm not prepared to go on and try to pack the court, because we'll live to rue that day. And I guess, Biden's whole candidacy, as you know, has been based on this notion he's going to return the office of the presidency to some kind of normalcy, that he would be a uniter, not a divider.

So when you say all options are on the table and you're, you know, prepared to take these further actions if you can't convince Republicans to stop, you know, moving forward with a Trump nominee to the Supreme Court, doesn't that openly contradict what Biden is trying to sell?

VAN HOLLEN: No, Ana. First of all, I'm saying we are focused right now on trying to stop this paragraph at this moment. That is our focus, trying to get those two more Republican senators, as we also use all our procedural options. Obviously, we're weighing every single one of those and we will use every angle --

CABRERA: What kind of procedural options are there, and forgive me for interrupting. I don't mean to, but I just want to make sure I use time wisely here. I think Americans are listening. Procedural options, what does that look like?

VAN HOLLEN: That mostly has to do with whether there is a way to use the clock to our advantage, to make sure we use our full amount of time on any kind of motion going forward, and whether that's enough to essentially block consideration before Election Day.

I'm not saying it is for sure. I'm saying we will pursue every option we have in that regard as we continue this fight to communicate what's at stake and try to persuade another two Republican senators to join Senators Murkowsky and Collins.

Now, you know, the Senate has these traditions and McConnell established this rule himself back in 2016. And it is important to let everybody know that if they're going to run roughshod over these sort of rules and procedures that they established.

Obviously what that means is that, you know, everything is on the table in the event that, you know, they do use this power grab. But, again, I want to emphasize that this is not over. We're going to fight and find every way we can to stop what's happening right now. CABRERA: So, I hear you saying, you're going to try to delay this

process, but that means this fight is going to be in the spotlight that much longer.

And I have to think Republicans are breathing a sigh of relief right now that not all the oxygen is on the coronavirus and the president's handling of this pandemic, which unfortunately, has now claimed the lives of almost 200,000 Americans.

And so, if you have this protracted fight over the Supreme Court, could that play into the Republicans' hands?

VAN HOLLEN: I don't think so because what the Republicans will be telling the country is that it's more important to abuse their power and try to pack the court with justices who are going to take away people's access to Affordable Care Act, take away people's protections for preexisting conditions, than it is to pass emergency relief that deals with both the health care issues as well as the economic issues.

This is a proxy fight over whether or not we're going to provide the American people with affordable health care in the middle of a pandemic. And what Republicans are saying is not only are they going to refuse to take over -- up the Heroes Act and vote on the Heroes Act to pass the House.

Not only going to do that, but they're going to use all this precious time between now and the election, trying to hijack the court and pack the court with right-wing ideologues who are prepared right now to strip away the Affordable Care act.

That has been Donald Trump's goal from day one. He failed to get it done in the House and the Senate. He has sued to destroy the Affordable Care Act.

[17:14:59]

That case is up in November and that's what this pick for a Supreme Court justice is all about. They want to take away the Affordable Care Act. They want to strip women of their rights and they want to strip workers of their rights.

CABRERA: Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it.

VAN HOLLEN: Ana, good to be with you.

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