NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript Interview with Bernie Sanders
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is the independent senator from Vermont, Bernie Sanders. Senator Sanders, welcome back to Meet the Press. And while this is a convention Sunday and we want to talk a little bit about the campaign, I want to start with the Postal Service. You've spent a lot of time in your career fighting on behalf of the Postal Service in different ways, fighting to make sure stuff doesn't get cut. So, this is a topic you are well versed in. So, let me ask you this about what we're seeing right now. On one hand, the United States Postal Service is telling states they can't handle the increased capacity of mail-in voting. On the other hand, we've got reports of sorting machines going away, no more overtime. What are we witnessing here, Senator Sanders? Legitimate reform of the Postal Service or sabotage?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, Chuck, what you are witnessing is a president of the United States who is doing everything he can to suppress the vote, make it harder for people to engage in mail-in balloting at a time when people will be putting their lives on the line by having to go out to a polling station and vote. So, what Trump is saying is, "We're going to do everything we can." And this is not me talking. This is what Trump, himself, said. Look, I happen to think, as you know, that Trump is a pathological liar. He lies all of the time, but I've got to say, I've got to admit that the other day he was very honest. He said, "Look, we want to kill mail-in balloting. We don't want millions and millions of people to be able to cast their ballots through the mail, so we'll destroy the Postal Service. We'll defund it. They can't vote." I guess that he thinks that a suppressed vote, a lower voter turnout, will work for him and that it will help him win the election. So, this is a deliberate effort to defund and destroy the U.S. Postal Service so that people cannot engage in mail-in ballots. That's not Bernie Sanders talking. That's what Donald Trump is telling the American people. And it is an outrage, Chuck, because this campaign is more than healthcare, it's more than education, it's more than the Postal Service. It is democracy and he is sabotaging our democracy.
CHUCK TODD:
I think the question now is what does Congress do? What can you do? The House is -- you're hearing some word that the House Democratic leadership is thinking about bringing the House back early to deal directly with this Postal Service crisis. Do you think that's a good idea? And do you want to see Senator Mitch McConnell do the same thing?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Absolutely. No, I think what the Democratic leadership in the House, Nancy Pelosi, and others are talking about is exactly right. This, again, is not a debate about the Postal Service alone. That's important. This is about the future of American democracy and whether people have a right to participate. Chuck, just last week, earlier this week, here in Vermont, we had our primaries. We had the largest voter turnout in primaries in Vermont history. Most of the people voted by mail-in ballot. It worked just fine. We could do this in every state in this country. So, I would urge Speaker Pelosi to bring back the House. We will do everything that we can to get McConnell to bring back the Senate. This is a crisis for American democracy. We have got to act and act now.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, your colleague, Brian Schatz in Hawaii, a Democrat from Hawaii, saw shades of Ukraine in here. He tweeted, "Trump messing with the Postal Service is more impeachable than the Ukraine thing, which was super impeachable. He's really going to try to cheat." I guess the question is what do you call what the president is doing when he said that he's hoping this lack of a deal on the Postal Service means no mail-in voting? What do you call it?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I call it undermining American democracy. And Chuck, what I hope is, I mean, everybody knows my political views. I am a strong progressive. But this campaign is not about whether you're progressive or a moderate or a conservative. This campaign, in the deepest sense, is whether we respect the sacrifices the men and women died in defending American democracy against a president who really quite openly is trying to undermine our democracy. And I hope the American people come together, progressives, moderates, conservatives, to say, "Sorry, Mr. President, we may have our disagreements, but in America, we are a democracy. Everybody is going to vote and we're not going to let you get away with what you're doing."
CHUCK TODD:
What would you tell voters right now that want to vote by mail, but are nervous?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I would tell them, look, the average voter is put in a very difficult position. You are more than familiar with the fact that there are states which have discouraged mail-in votes, urged people to come to the polling places. And some of those people have become sick. So, the average person is put in this terrible quagmire. "Yes, I want to vote. I want to participate in democracy, but I'm afraid to go out." The people who man the polling stations often are older people. They are afraid of spending an entire day dealing with other people who are voting. So, what I would say to people is stay tuned. In one way or another, we're going to make sure that the people of this country have the right to vote and Donald Trump is not going to undermine our democracy.
CHUCK TODD:
When you say stay tuned, what does that mean? I mean, do you really believe Congress can act to hamstring the president here?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I was --
CHUCK TODD:
I mean he, he seems to control the --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
We're going to do everything that we can, in every way that we can. And different states may respond differently, but this is an issue. This really is an issue where ideology should not get in the way. I don't care if you're a conservative, moderate, whatever you are. If you believe that people have a right to vote and in a pandemic should not have to put their lives on the line to go into a ballot -- into a polling station, you know what, you have to support the full funding of the Postal Service and make sure that people can participate.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, I want to talk about tomorrow night. You're speaking on the same night as John Kasich. First of all, what do you make of that, number one? And give us a preview of your speech, if you don't mind.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, only if you don't tell anybody, Chuck, all right? Just keep that between you and me, what my speech is. What I am going to be talking about are a couple of things. Number one, what I just referred to, is that this is a campaign about whether or not we maintain American democracy. We have a president -- it's not just the Postal Service. You will recall that not so long ago, Trump said, "Well, you know, maybe we should delay the election. I'm behind in the polls. Let's delay the election." And earlier than that, he said, "Well, you know, maybe if I lose, I may not want to leave office." This is a president who has used federal agents in unmarked cars to round up people exercising their constitutional right to protest. So, this is a campaign about democracy, but I'll tell you what else it is. Right now, as we speak, Chuck, and we don't talk about this enough, with 30 million people having lost their jobs since the pandemic, and since those $600 checks have ceased to come, what you are seeing all over this country is people in economic desperation. You're seeing people who today, in America, the richest country on Earth, unable to feed their kids, worrying about being evicted from their homes. You're seeing people who cannot pay their bills, who have no health insurance. What we are looking at is an absolute horror show. What Congress has got to do is not only fund the Postal Service, we have got to maintain those $600 checks. We've got to make sure that people get at least $1,200 to pay their bills. And obviously Trump and McConnell have done nothing in that regard.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you about one aspect of the Democratic Party platform. There is one reference we could find to Medicare For All. I'm going to read it here. "We are proud our party welcomes advocates who want to build on and strengthen the Affordable Care Act and those who support a Medicare For All approach. All are critical to ensuring that healthcare is a human right." It is the only reference we could find to Medicare For All. How do you feel overall about the party platform? And do you feel like you've got enough of your views represented in it?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, Chuck, as you may be aware, I am not the candidate, so my views are not the dominant views. But what I will credit strongly the Biden campaign for is that Joe and I talked about this and he and I agreed that we should have task forces dealing with some of the major issues facing this country, including the economy and healthcare, climate change, immigration, education, et cetera. And the people on those task forces worked very, very hard. And I'm not here to tell you, as a strong advocate for Medicare For All, that we got everything we wanted. We surely did not. But I think if people look at the outcome of those task forces, they'll find the reality that if those task force proposals are implemented, you know what, Joe Biden will become the most progressive president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And that, in this moment, is what we need.
CHUCK TODD:
Kamala Harris, the pick of her, in many ways this is also Joe Biden's vision of the future of the Democratic party, a future -- perhaps a future president, perhaps a future nominee. Is she a future progressive leader of the Democratic party, in your mind?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, Chuck, all that I can say is that I think what almost all progressives understand, that in this moment we have got to do everything we can to come together to defeat Donald Trump, who in my view is the most dangerous president in the modern history of this country, and elect Joe Biden. But as I have said many, many times, the day after Biden is elected, we're going to be working with the grassroots in this country, with working people, with people of color, with young people, to stand up and fight for an agenda that works for working families, not just the 1%. And that most certainly includes Medicare For All. So, we're going to rally the American people around an agenda. And I look forward to doing that the day after Biden is elected.
CHUCK TODD:
Very quickly, in the state of Wisconsin, Kanye West is trying to get on the ballot. And one of his petition signatures that apparently right now is being used to get him on the ballot is by the name of a -- a gentleman by the name of Bernie Sanders. And it claims that you have signed this. Mickey Mouse also apparently signed these petition signatures. I just want to confirm that that is not you, sir, that signed a petition --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I cannot, I cannot confirm --
CHUCK TODD:
-- in Wisconsin to get Kanye West on the ballot.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I cannot confirm Mickey Mouse. That I'm not -- don't know about, but I can tell you I certainly did not sign that petition.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. Senator Bernie Sanders, we look forward to hearing what you have to say tomorrow night. And again, how do you feel about sharing the stage with John Kasich?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Look, John will do his thing. I will do my thing. I expect they'll be different types of speeches, but we are united. We are united in the understanding that Trump has to be defeated and Biden has to be elected.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. All right, Bernie Sanders, the progressive Independent senator from Vermont. The runner-up in this Democratic nomination fight that we all witnessed here. Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective, sir.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you.
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