CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Interview with Tim Scott

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Joining me now is Republican Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina. He's the only black senator in the Republican Conference. He is leading his party's push on policing reform legislation.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

(CROSSTALK)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Jake, it's good to be with you.

TAPPER: Tell us, where do things stand on this legislation?

Where do things stand with this legislation and negotiations to get something passed? Where is the bill right now?

[16:05:00]

SCOTT: Well, the text is being finished today. I think we have had a lot of good conversations.

I looked at the House package, talked to my friends on the other side of the aisle, and worked on something that I think has a lot of synergy and a lot of overlap.

So, my hope is that, as I introduce it early next week, we will have an opportunity to have a real conversation about that. And I'm certain that we will have a shirts vs. skins kind of game.

And then, hopefully, we will come to the table and get something that will actually become law and reduce the number of unfortunate and unnecessary incidents, some that I have experienced personally, but certainly the ones that are even worse than the ones that I have experienced.

TAPPER: You have experienced what? You have talked about being pulled over for no reason before.

I know that, when you entered the Senate, there was a Capitol Hill policeman that didn't believe you were a senator. What are some of the other things that you have experienced?

SCOTT: Sure. Yes.

So, as an elected official on the Charleston County level, I was pulled over seven times while driving -- driving while black, surrounded by -- my car was surrounded by four different police cars.

Last year, I was pulled over. This year, I was pulled over for the failure to use my turn signal earlier in my lane change. There are probably 18 incidents that I could name over the last 22 years.

So, my experience with this, fortunately, did not lead to bodily harm. But the point is that this is something that is serious that happens to African-Americans all over the place, and something that we have a chance to reduce the unnecessary and oftentimes negative impact, and sometimes even deadly impact, that this is having within the community.

If we can do that together in a bipartisan fashion, in the same way that we responded to coronavirus, I'm hopeful that we will respond to police reform.

TAPPER: Where are some of the areas that there's overlap with your legislation in the Senate and the House Democrats' legislation? Where are they that you think you can agree and get something to the president's desk?

SCOTT: I think we both have a desire to see the choke hold used infinitely less. We take two different paths to get there. But that's one area.

I think the duty to intervene is something that we have in our legislation, watching the three officers stand there while the other one was on Mr. Floyd's neck. That's something that we should work on.

There's another part of it that deals with data and training, both really important parts. If I look at the House bill, there's a lot around de-escalation training. It's in our legislation as well. Use of force boards, that's a part of our bill. We do it differently. We want to study before we move into it. They want to move quickly into it.

I think it's important for us to have that conversation. But when you're that close from a beginning point in legislation, that means there is a really good chance that something good will come out of it.

We're distances away on the qualified immunity. That is something that there are members of my conference that want to have that conversation. That's the minority of my conference. I would say that the majority of their conference wants to have a conversation around qualified immunity.

How we deal with the no-knocks is a place where we both want to deal with it. We have two different ways, two different approaches to dealing with it, but a really important issue, if you look at Ms. Taylor's death in Louisiana (sic).

This is something that I talked specifically with Senator McConnell, the Kentucky senator, about bringing more attention and awareness to who's using it, when it's used, race, age, sex of the person it's served on. I think there's a lot of information that we don't have, because fewer than 40 percent of the law enforcement departments around the country actually are compelled to report information on the use of -- the use of force that leads to death or serious bodily injury.

So there are a lot of parts of the bills that I hope that we will be able and courageous enough to say, listen, this is not about me. It's not about Republicans. It's not about Democrats. It's, frankly, about saving lives. Let's get those seven or eight things that we have on the table that look similar, let's put them together, and get a package done before we head out of here.

If that happens, I think the American people will celebrate a bipartisan, frankly, nonpartisan approach to an issue that is vexing our society every single day.

TAPPER: Yes, I know. And you and I have been talking about these issues for a long time. I think your first interview on this show four years ago was about body cameras.

SCOTT: Thank you.

TAPPER: Let me ask you just -- you talk about all the incidents that you have experienced in your life, and, thankfully, none of them have turned out to -- in tragedy or even violence.

Do you think that racism is a systemic problem in law enforcement?

SCOTT: Yes, that's a tough question to answer.

I think the definition of systemic really does matter. The question is, is there a racial outcome in the issues or the incidents? Whether or not you believe that it is systemic, the answer is yes.

[16:10:05]

The definition of systemic or institutional racism is just -- there's so many different definitions. I don't jump there first.

I will say that, without any question, that, as I view the records, as I think it through, if an African-American has 2.5 times more chance of being killed by the police than a white person does, I'm not sure whether that speaks to systemic racism. It certainly speaks to a racial outcome that can be reduced significantly.

And so what I try to do is look for ways to actually get the outcome that reduces the number of incidents, so that people have more confidence in the institutions that have authority and power. Nothing more powerful than a weapon pointed at you. Therefore, if we can reduce the number of incidents, we actually increase the chances that our country comes together and has more respect and appreciation for institutions of authority.

TAPPER: There's another issue that's been bubbling up in the U.S. Senate and around the country that has to do with historical legacies of racism.

So far, you have stayed neutral on this issue of renaming the 10 U.S. military bases which bear the names of Confederate generals. I guess, in one case, it's a colonel.

Fort Gordon is named after someone who was likely the head of the Georgia Ku Klux Klan. General David Petraeus writes about the namesake for Fort Benning, that it's Henry Benning, was a Confederate general who was such an enthusiast for slavery that, as early as 1849, he argued for the dissolution of the Union and the formation of a Southern slavocracy.

I could go on and on, but I will spare you the details of all 10.

But the Republican-controlled Senate Armed Services Committee has already said that these 10 bases should be named. Surely, you have an opinion on this?

SCOTT: Well, I didn't say I didn't have an opinion. I just haven't really heard it until yesterday. And so I assumed that you would ask this question.

I talked to the members of the Armed Services Committee. And the NDAA does in fact want to study the issue and come to a conclusion on what to do next. That is something, I think, that we will see what the outcome is on that, I assume, within the next several months.

I know that the other side wanted to, I think, study the issue and then come to the conclusion very quickly on what to do with it, as -- I'm sure there's a deeper question as it relates to the symbols and to the renaming of bases.

I will say that our nation struggles with a lot of issues. Perhaps the most important issues I want to figure out how to solve is, how do you close the racial divide? How do we create more wealth in all communities? How do we increase the homeownership within the African- American community after the 2009 crash? How do we make sure that every kid in a public school in a poor zip code gets more funding for their schools and gets better outcomes?

Sure, I care about renaming bases, but I don't care enough about it to make it more important than those issues.

TAPPER: Do you think President Trump is able to rise to the moment of this leadership to bring the country together?

General Mattis recently said that President Trump seems focused on dividing the country and doesn't even pretend to try to unite us.

What do you think?

SCOTT: Well, I will say it, Jake, that my experience with the president on the issue of race is obviously very different than General Mattis' perspective on the divide in the country.

I will say, after Charlottesville, when I said the president compromised his moral authority with his reaction, we had the sit-down in the Oval Office, and out of that came Opportunity Zones. When I have criticized him on the comments about Baltimore or the Squad or other comments that I have critiqued him on, the one thing I can say about this president is, he actually has invited me to have a conversation about those issues.

And out of those conversations have come the record-breaking amount of funding for historically black colleges and universities, more focus on research for sickle cell anemia, Opportunity Zones, as I just mentioned, assistance for black farmers and heirs' property.

So, I can say that, as I have approached the president about the priorities that I think are necessary to really reduce that racial divide, the president keeps saying yes to it.

So, as someone who has benefited from being in a position to help people that I may never meet in generations that may not have been born yet, I will continue to work with the president. And, frankly, I have confidence that, when I have that conversation with the president, it seems to produce products that are in our best interest as a nation, and specifically moves the African-American community forward.

And, frankly, when I think about criminal justice reform, making up for the 1994 crime bill was a result of years of hard work and dedication to keeping the main thing the main thing. And I think that works for me.

It's been working pretty well for the outcomes for communities of color. Whether they like him or like me, the fact is that we're producing pretty good results right now, save some of the...

TAPPER: It's certainly a unique relationship.

SCOTT: I would say that the president's love language is not of words of -- words of encouragement.

[16:15:01]

I'm sorry, Jake? TAPPER: I was just going to say it's certainly a unique position that

you find yourself in. Best of luck with your legislation, Republican Senator Tim Scott. Thank you again, sir. Appreciate it.

SCOTT: Well, let's do it next week.

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