CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Sen. Chris Murphy

Interview

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Senator Chris Murphy joins me next on President Trump's intelligence community crackdown and new claims about Russian interference in the 2020 election.

Stay with us.

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[09:17:18]

TAPPER: Welcome back to the STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

We learned this week that the U.S. intelligence community has warned lawmakers that Russia is already trying to interfere in the 2020 presidential race.

Senator Bernie Sanders confirmed a "Washington Post" report that he was briefed by officials that Russia is trying to aid his campaign in the primaries as part of Russia's overall disruption campaign, while President Trump and a top aide are now denying what an intelligence official told lawmakers in a briefing, that the Russians have a preference for President Trump.

A national security official tells me that the briefer may have overstated and mischaracterized the intelligence regarding Trump, which, as of now, does not suggest the Russians have a preference, though they do believe they can work with President Trump.

Joining me now, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. He's a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for being here.

I want to ask about something that National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien was asked about on a different show about Russia interfering in the 2020 election, specifically the Bernie Sanders elements of it. He said -- quote -- "There are these reports that they want Bernie

Sanders to get elected president. That's no surprise. He honeymooned in Moscow" -- unquote.

What's your response to that?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Well, our national security adviser should stay out of politics. And that is a political statement.

What we know is that the Russians never stopped interfering in American politics. They don't just get involved in elections. They are involved every single day.

And analysis of what they have been doing on Twitter since 2016 has been pretty clear. They are weighing in over and over again in support of right-wing causes, in support of Donald Trump's political agenda.

And, of course, it stands to reason that they want Donald Trump reelected, because he has been a gift to Russia. He has essentially ceded the Middle East to Russian interests. He has accomplished more in the undermining of NATO than Russia has in the last 20 years.

And he continues to effectively deny that they have an ongoing political operation here in the United States that, by and large, is intended to support Donald Trump and his allies.

TAPPER: So, the Trump people would push back. They would say that he has actually gotten NATO members to spend more on defense than previous presidents have been able to do, which is factually correct, that he is spending more on the U.S. military than previous presidents, which -- which is also correct, and, in fact, that all of this is hostile to what Russia would want.

MURPHY: So, what we know is that NATO is weaker today than ever before.

The fact that Donald Trump has questioned whether or not the United States would even come to the defense of a NATO ally in the future is an invitation to Russia to continue to probe at our borders.

And, of course, the entire impeachment scandal was over the Trump administration's weakening of Ukraine, taking that country and turning it into just another political actor in the United States, which is going to once again send a message to Russia that they can try to move on countries on their periphery without any real consequences from the United States.

[09:20:14]

TAPPER: Which they have not done, we should -- we should note.

I want to ask you, Sanders' campaign manager cited this quote from O'Brien that I read to you in a tweet. And he suggests in his tweet, the Sanders campaign manager, that the Trump administration leaked classified intelligence without context to weaponize against Bernie.

That's a very strong charge. Do you agree?

MURPHY: Well, I don't know how that information ultimately came out.

What I am worried about is the politicization of intelligence by this administration. The new acting head of intelligence has no background in intel. He is a Trump loyalist.

And I think we all worry about this administration controlling massive amounts of intelligence, massive amounts of classified information, and leaking it out to the press when it advantages them.

I have been very worried about the kind of information the Trump administration keeps classified. There have been multiple instances of the Trump administration keeping classified information that might be politically embarrassing to the president, but actually doesn't hold any true national security classified information.

So, the weaponization of classified information, I think, is something that we are more worried about, especially with this new acting director of intelligence.

TAPPER: What are you talking about when they say they're keeping information secret because it might be damaging? You talking about the John Bolton book? What do you -- what do you mean?

MURPHY: The John Bolton book certainly is an example of information that may not actually need to be classified, but it's simply embarrassing to the president.

The information regarding Mike Pence's meeting in -- regarding Ukraine that was kept classified during the impeachment proceedings involved no classified information. The only reason that that was classified was because it would have hurt the president's case during the impeachment trial.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about your recent meeting last weekend, I guess, with Iranian Foreign Minister Zarif in Munich.

President Trump said this week that he thought your meeting was illegal. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I saw that there's a -- Senator Murphy met with the Iranians. Is that a fact? I just saw that on the way over. Is there anything that I should know?

Because that sounds like, to me, a violation of the Logan Act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The Logan Act, as you know, but our viewers might not, is a law that bars unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments.

Did you tell the president or the State Department you were going to meet with Zarif? And, if not, why not?

MURPHY: I did.

TAPPER: You did? OK.

MURPHY: I alerted the State Department ahead of time.

It is, of course, my job, as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, and as the top Democrat on the Middle East Subcommittee, to meet with regional leaders, even our adversaries.

And the fact of the matter is, it's dangerous that this administration is not talking to the Iranians. The Trump policy on Iran has been a total disaster. Iran is more powerful today than they were at the beginning of the Trump presidency. They have restarted their nuclear program. They're shooting at U.S. troops. They're offering up more support for proxies.

I'm not negotiating with Iran, but it does make sense for somebody to be listening to them and to be engaged in some level of outreach, as perhaps a means of trying to avert crisis and disaster down the road.

TAPPER: We only have a couple minutes left, but I do want to ask you about the 2020 campaign.

One of the issues that you're known for the most is pushing for further regulation of firearms, guns. During the 2016 campaign, Senator Sanders was asked about whether the victims' families in the Sandy Hook Connecticut shooting should be able to sue gun manufacturers.

This is what he said:

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SANDERS: Do I think the victims...

QUESTION: The right -- the right -- yes.

SANDERS: ... of a crime with a gun should be able to sue the manufacturer? Is that your question?

QUESTION: Correct.

SANDERS: No, I don't.

I think there are grounds for those suits, but not if you sold me a legal product.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: You responded on Twitter, saying -- quote -- "Bernie's a friend, but this is really bad. Democrats can't nominate a candidate who supports gun manufacturer immunity."

Now, since then, he has changed his position. But do you still have concerns about Senator Sanders' position on guns?

MURPHY: None. None.

Senator Sanders has stood with us over and over again on expanding background checks, on taking these dangerous assault weapons off the streets.

To the extent that he had made statements in the past questioning whether or not victims' family should be able to sue manufacturers...

TAPPER: Not just statements. He voted against it.

MURPHY: ... he has changed that position.

He has been an ally. Every single candidate in this Democratic primary has taken a very strong position, has made it clear that they are going to make it a priority to solve this epidemic of gun violence if they get the nomination and if they're elected president.

TAPPER: Do you have any concerns about Bernie Sanders as the Democratic nominee in terms of his ability to beat President Trump in November or how much he might hurt down-ballot Democrats who are in more moderate districts?

MURPHY: I do not.

I think Bernie Sanders will beat Donald Trump. I think Joe Biden would beat Donald Trump. I think Elizabeth Warren would beat Donald Trump.

What we need is a candidate who has a base of enthusiastic supporters, who's authentic, who speaks truth to power, who can throw a punch and who can take a punch.

[09:25:02]

I think anybody that's polling in the top four or five fits that bill. But Bernie's base of support, the enthusiasm behind him I think speaks to the strength of his candidacy both in the primary, but as a general election candidate as well.

TAPPER: Are you -- that was very strong. I mean, are you endorsing him? Are you supporting him?

MURPHY: No, I'm not endorsing anyone.

I think that this primary is going to be a test of who is ready, who's tough enough to take on President Trump. Remember, only 5 percent of the country has voted yet.

I mean, I -- Bernie's done very well in the opening primaries, but this thing is not a done deal. Any of the candidates who are polling well in these early primaries, and Mayor Bloomberg, still has, I think, a very good shot at the nomination.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Chris Murphy, Democrat of Connecticut, we appreciate your time. MURPHY: Thank you.

TAPPER: Thank you, sir.

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