CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Sen. Mike Lee

Interview

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Senator Bernie Sanders has a new ally in Congress this week, Republican Senator Mike Lee of Utah. The two senators are trying to block Pentagon funding for the use of military force against Iran.

This comes after Lee's sharp criticism of top Trump administration officials this week, who gave what Lee called the worst military briefing he has experienced in his nine years in Congress.

Utah Republican Senator Mike Lee joins us now. He's the author of a new book. It's called "Our Lost Declaration: America's Fight Against Tyranny."

Senator Lee, thanks so much for joining us.

So, you seemed, after the briefing, very offended by the lack of information given to you.

Was the administration basically just saying, hey, come on, trust us?

LEE: Look, Jake, in that briefing, we didn't receive very much information that wasn't already available through public media sources.

This is one of the things that's very frustrating. When something like this happens, when events are unfolding quickly, events that will have a profound impact on national security and military strategy, Congress does need to know about it, in part so we can evaluate the scope of our authority to act or choose not to act.

We didn't get that. And that was disappointing.

TAPPER: Did -- in the briefing you experienced, did they say anything about four U.S. embassies were going to be targeted by Soleimani and his forces, as President Trump said on -- he believed on Friday?

LEE: I -- I didn't hear anything about that. And several of my colleagues have said the same. So, that was news to me. It certainly wasn't something that I recall being raised in the classified briefing.

TAPPER: Secretary of State Pompeo said at the White House on Friday that he did tell members of Congress about the threat to U.S. embassies, as the president revealed publicly at his campaign rally, when he said at least one embassy was going to be threatened.

[09:20:07]

Take a listen to Secretary Pompeo on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: All of the intelligence that we briefed, that -- that you have heard today, I assure you, in an unclassified setting, we have provided in the classified setting as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that's not true?

LEE: Well, look, I'm not sure exactly what he's trying to say there.

I don't recall being told, look, there were four embassies. I'm sure there was a mention of at least one embassy in that briefing, because there had been an attack on one of our embassies in the days leading up to General Soleimani's killing.

But, look, Jake, I want to make very clear, I issued a statement within a few hours of the attack on General Soleimani, announcing that this was a good development from the standpoint of the security of the American people. We are, in fact, safer as a result of the fact that he's dead.

If you see a wounded veteran anywhere in America, and there they're missing a limb or they're badly disfigured, odds are pretty good that veteran may have been wounded by an IED that was developed and deployed under General Soleimani's leadership and at his direction.

And so this development is good for the security of the American people. But it does matter that we give the details to members of Congress, and it does matter to figure out where we go from here and to make sure that any further action is authorized by Congress.

TAPPER: Congressman Justin Amash, Republican-turned-independent, told CNN that he does not think an attack was imminent, and, therefore, in his view, President Trump abused his power by ordering the strike against Soleimani.

Do you agree?

LEE: Look, I have not yet been able to ascertain really specific details as to the imminence of the attack.

Again, we weren't provided that the other day. We were given somewhat general statements. And I believe that the briefers and the president believe that they had a basis for concluding that there was an imminent attack.

I don't doubt that. It's just frustrating to be told that and not get the details behind it.

There is also, of course, the argument that there was a -- the 2002 AUMF in place authorized it independently, given that this took place within the war zone.

TAPPER: So, you just heard Secretary Esper say that he does not think further military action specifically against Iran would be covered by the 2001-2002 AUMF, authorization for use of military force.

Do you think President Trump has the authority to conduct another strike against Iran without congressional approval?

LEE: Well, I agree with Secretary Esper. Insofar as he was saying that, I think he's absolutely right.

And if he agrees with that, which it sounds like he does, then he should agree to support the war powers resolution that Senator Kaine has agreed to introduce, with amendments that I have suggested, that acknowledges that neither the '01 nor the '02 AUMF can be read to support further military action against Iran, and that, in the absence of an AUMF or declaration of war by Congress, or in the absence of an actual or imminent attack, and there's no justification for further military action.

TAPPER: So, listen, you and I agree Soleimani had the blood of innocents on his hands and was a bad person. The question is whether or not the intelligence behind his attack was

what it is being presented as.

And do you -- do you have any concerns? I mean, we have heard mixed messages and conflicting stories about the reason for the attack, whether it's the existential threat that Soleimani posed, vs. imminent attacks, vs. an attack on one embassy, vs. an attack on four embassies.

You and I have sat through this movie before, conflicting, changing information, intelligence juiced in order to justify certain actions.

How worried are you about the integrity of the information we're being told?

LEE: Well, I'm worried.

And as a United States senator and as a voter and citizen, I have learned not to simply take the federal government's word at face value.

I mean, look, we were lied to about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We were lied to for a couple of decades about what was happening in Afghanistan. We have been lied to about a lot of things.

It's not to say that the government is always lying or that the people who run it are inherently evil. It's just that they're human. And these things do happen.

And so that's important to ask these questions, to make sure that we know the details.

And insofar as we're dealing with the inherent tension between the Article 2 commander in chief power enjoyed by the president and the Article 1, Section 8, declaration of war power on the other hand controlled by Congress, members of Congress do need to be apprised of the information underlying a particular decision.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Mike Lee of Utah, thank you so much for your time, sir. We appreciate it.

LEE: Thank you.

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