CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview With Sen. Chris Murphy
Interview
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Joining us now, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. He's a member of the Foreign Relations Committee.
Senator, thanks so much for coming in.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Yes, thanks for having me.
BLITZER: All right, so, John Kelly, the former White House chief of staff, says -- quote -- "If John Bolton says that in the book, I believe John Bolton."
And you know what he says in the book. The president's attorney Jay Sekulow says Bolton's unpublished book is -- quote -- "inadmissible" as evidence in this Senate trial.
So what do you think? Does it mean even the manuscript can't be subpoenaed and potentially read?
MURPHY: Well, John Bolton is still alive, right?
We don't need his manuscript. We can just bring John Bolton before the Senate as a witness. There hasn't been a single impeachment trial in the history of the country that hasn't had witnesses.
And we have a witness who seeks to fill in the gaps that the president's lawyers are telling jurors exist, right? The president's lawyers case is that, yes, Sondland was definitely carrying out an aid-for-investigation scheme, but that wasn't through orders by the president. The president didn't tell anybody to do that.
Well, John Bolton is going to testify that the president, in fact, said: I'm not giving Ukraine the aid unless they do investigations into my political opponents.
And so Republicans are claiming that this is a gap in the testimony. Bolton will fill in that gap. We don't need to read the book. All we have to do is bring John Bolton before the Senate, because he's willing to testify. He wasn't willing to testify in the House. He is willing to testify now.
BLITZER: You're heard Manu Raju's reporting that Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, is not sure yet that he has the votes to block witnesses.
MURPHY: Well, I don't think he does. I mean, I think it's really going to be impossible for Republicans to
go back to their states and make this argument that there was a witness willing to testify to the president's crime, and they decided they didn't want to hear him.
Remember, the polls now suggest that 80 percent of Americans -- that means lots of Trump supporters -- want these witnesses. And so, in the end, it's really up to the American people. And they are making it clear they do not want to cover-up. They don't want a rigged trial. They want witnesses. They want an actual trial that's seeking to get to the facts.
BLITZER: Yes, I want you to elaborate on what you told our CNN colleague Lauren Fox earlier that -- subpoenaing in the manuscript, rather than having Bolton actually testify under oath, in your words, was total B.S.
You didn't say B.S. You said something else.
(LAUGHTER)
MURPHY: Yes, I said out the word, because I think it is ridiculous.
Listen, Republicans are very scared of what John Bolton is going to say. And they would rather that only his manuscript be admitted, instead of having John Bolton come in and testify under oath.
Frankly, it's much harder for him to spin a tale if he's under oath. It's much easier for Republicans to cross-examine him if he's before us as a witness.
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And so there's a reason why witnesses appear in trials, not just the books or the stories they write down on paper, because you want them under oath. You want them to be able to be cross-examined. That's what we should do here.
BLITZER: Would you be satisfied if they followed the example from the Bill Clinton impeachment trial 21 years ago, where they had three witnesses that were allowed to come forward, they were deposed on videotape, under oath, behind the scenes, and then they released excerpts during the course of the trial?
MURPHY: Well, I mean, let's get past the first step, before we start negotiating the exact form of these depositions and this witness testimony.
Remember, what we're going to have likely on Friday is an up-or-down vote from Republicans as to whether they want any witnesses at all, or whether they want to turn this trial into a cover-up.
We still do need, as you said, four Republicans at least to vote with us, and then we can get into a negotiation over how many witnesses and how that testimony is provided. BLITZER: What do you think of some -- the proposals that some
Republicans have put forward, a swap basically, for John Bolton for Hunter Biden?
MURPHY: Well, I mean, like, this isn't Major League Baseball, right? We're not trading draft picks for prospects.
The idea that you're going to trade one witness for another is preposterous, especially because what the Senate Republicans are trying to do here is essentially turn the Senate into an accomplice of the president.
The president is accused of using his official powers to try to destroy his political opponents. And now the Senate is saying, Republican senators are saying, well, let's turn the impeachment trial into a forum by which to continue the destruction of the president's political opponents.
I just don't want to be a co-conspirator with the president.
BLITZER: Here's what Lindsey Graham, your Republican colleague, just tweeted. I don't know if you have seen it. Have you seen it?
MURPHY: I did.
BLITZER: I will read it to our viewers.
"It is clear to me that most Democrats are very comfortable with an America where only Republicans get investigated. Not one Republican believes that Senator Schumer and Chris Murphy are remotely interested in fairness."
MURPHY: Yes, I mean, listen, I understand things are getting heated right now.
But this, to me, is ultimately about the rule of law. And I get it. The Republicans are going to look at me or anybody else skeptically when we say that we would treat a Democratic president the same way.
But I believe I would. I believe that if a Democratic president was trading away taxpayer dollars in order to get interference in an election, I would hold that president to the same standard.
I get it that there's going to be skepticism about that, but I believe it.
BLITZER: Senator Murphy, thanks so much for coming in.
MURPHY: Thanks.
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