CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview With Sen. Chris Van Hollen

Interview

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Joining us now, Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland.

Senator, thank you so much for joining us. We have got lots to discuss.

But let me get your reaction to these new e-mails. The House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, is asking, why won't Trump and McConnell allow a fair trial? The Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, the House Intelligence Committee chairman, Adam Schiff, they're also pointing to these new e-mails as further evidence that the Senate needs witnesses and documents.

So, how does this help your case?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Wolf, it's good to be with you.

Yes, this new information is very incriminating, very damning to the president's case. It shows, first of all, that the order to withhold the funding, the support for Ukraine came directly from the president at a very sensitive time.

It shows that the Defense Department was essentially freaking out, in addition to asking about the legality of the president's hold on the funds. And the fact that these were originally redacted, these were blacked out, shows that the administration was engaged in a cover-up. They did not want the public, they did not want the Congress to see what was in these e-mails.

So all of this just underscores the importance of having key witnesses, getting the essential documents, if we're going to have a fair trial. And right now, Mitch McConnell seems to be intent, working in lockstep with the president, to rig the trial and rig the process.

And I don't think any American thinks that that is the right approach to a trial in the United States Senate.

BLITZER: In order to get witnesses to appear in a Senate trial, you're going to need Republican support. There are 47 Democrats. Assuming all of you are united, you're going to need four Republicans to vote with the Democrats, get a 51-vote majority.

Are you going to get it?

VAN HOLLEN: I don't know, Wolf.

But I can tell you this. The American public overwhelmingly supports the idea that a fair trial requires witnesses, relevant -- witnesses who have relevant fact information, and relevant documents.

And so I'm sure those Republican senators are going to be hearing from a majority of their constituents about the importance of having a fair trial and having those witnesses.

We have all seen trials, whether in person in the courtroom or whether it's on TV or in movies. We all know that a fair trial requires that both sides be able to put on relevant witnesses and get relevant documents.

And to the extent that Republican senators vote against requests for that, they themselves will be complicit in the cover-up. This information is going to come out at some point. The only question is when. And I think there are going to be a lot of Republican senators who don't want to be seen, in retrospect or now, as engaging in a cover-up of important information, information important to the American people and to the impeachment trial.

BLITZER: We will see if the Democrats can come up with four Republican senators to vote in favor of witnesses.

How damaging, Senator, is it to see an Office of Management and Budget official spell out the president's instructions, writing -- and clearly writing in these newly released e-mails -- "Clear direction from POTUS," president of the United States, "to continue to hold"?

What's your reaction to that?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, it's very damaging.

If you remember back to the House proceedings, the Republicans were talking about the fact that it was all hearsay, it was all secondhand information. That wasn't true then.

But this new information simply adds to the case that the president was directly involved. You have got Defense Department officials totally confused, asking why this is being done. And you have OMB officials saying, well, it's being done because the president has ordered us to do it. They don't know why they're doing it either, at least not in these e-

mails. Now, the whole reason to call them as witnesses is to get additional information, which is why we have asked for four witnesses, for hours each. This doesn't have to eat up a lot of time.

I hear Republicans complaining about the need to get on with the trial. We could get on with this trial the day we're back, if the president would stop ordering White House officials to refuse to cooperate, ordering them not to testify, ordering them not to hand over documents, and if Mitch McConnell would agree to a fair trial.

[18:15:13]

We could get out of the blocks right away. So, what's really holding this up right now is not Speaker Pelosi. It's the refusal of the White House so far to provide any of this very relevant documents and information, information we're seeing as more and more incriminating by the day, and Mitch McConnell acting in lockstep with the White House, which is not his job under the Constitution.

He's supposed to be an impartial juror. We should all get all the evidence before making final decisions. But Mitch McConnell is clearly in league with the White House to try to cover this up. And that is a total abdication of his constitutional responsibilities.

BLITZER: Let me quickly, Senator, get your reaction to this attack on the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. And now we're getting these reports of rockets being fired over at the Baghdad International Airport.

How concerned are you that this Iraq situation seems to be exploding right now?

VAN HOLLEN: Wolf, I'm very concerned.

Obviously, we need to do what's necessary to protect the lives of Americans. But, unfortunately, actions this administration has taken for weeks and months now have taken a very difficult situation, and made it much worse.

After all, in the last few days, we actually heard our allies in the government of Iraq criticizing the United States. We heard critical comments from the president of Iraq and from the prime minister of Iraq.

And that compares to just a week ago, where everybody was essentially taking to the streets to complain about Iranian influence in Iraq.

So, we need to be very smart about how we approach the situation. And, so far, what this administration has done has actually added more fuel to the fire.

Sometimes, this administration seems to forget that -- the political geography of the situation. You have got Iran right next door to Iraq. Iraq is a majority Shia country. These militias, many of them are actually under the umbrella of the armed forces of the government of Iraq. So the government of Iraq might turn around tomorrow and tell the

United States to take a hike. And that could really harm our interests in the area.

So we need to be a lot smarter than we are right now. Yes, make sure that we protect Americans on the ground, but do so in a way that doesn't boomerang on us and actually empower and strengthen Iran, at the expense of both the United States and Iraq.

BLITZER: Yes, hard to believe, 17 years after the U.S. moved in to Iraq to get rid of Saddam Hussein, the situation there today is as unstable as ever.

Senator Chris Hollen, thanks so much for joining us.

VAN HOLLEN: Indeed. Good to be with you.

BLITZER: Senator Van Hollen. I'm sorry. Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you very, very much.

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