CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Tim Kaine

Interview

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Joining us now is Senator Tim Kaine, Democrat of Virginia, who's introduced the War Powers Resolution on Iran. Senator Kaine, the fact that this administration when all else fails is trying to come up with an explanation has now turned to just insulting Democrats in a way that at the same time he claims to be standing with the Iranian people, he is draping, you know, Democrats in garb that is worn by Iranians and that's an insult, according to the President.

SEN. TIM KAINE, (D-VA): Well, look, he's insulting Democrats, but Anderson, the real issue is, he's insulting all of Congress and the constitution. The constitution says we shouldn't go to war without a deliberation by Congress. And when the administration briefers came last week, many days after the Soleimani strike to finally brief us, they were contemptuous of Congress. They acted like we were an annoyance rather than we were part of the constitutional framework.

The reason that Congress is supposed to declare war is A, so we don't rush into it. And B, if we're going to order our best and brightest to risk their lives and risk their health, it should be based upon a debate in full view of the American public, where we end up saying, this is a war that's in the national interests. The President wants to insult not just Democrats with stupid juvenile tweets, he's insulting all of Congress by pretending that Congress doesn't have a role in war making.

COOPER: I mean, do you believe the explanations coming from the White House, specifically the President saying that Soleimani was targeting four embassies or you doesn't believe --

KAINE: No.

COOPER: No, you don't.

KAINE: No, absolutely not. No. I think when the evidence was presented to us last week in the classified setting, I can't talk about the discussions there, but I can tell you this, it added up to far less than an imminent threat. And that's the real key issue.

The President can always defend the nation against an imminent attack without seeking anybody's permission. But if he wants to go on offense and wage war against another nation or a group, he's got to come to Congress for permission. He didn't want to seek permission, so they tried to suggest that there was this imminent threat.

But as you pointed out, it's falling apart. The President makes up this thing about four embassies. We heard nothing about that. And the State Department itself and the embassies affected were not given notice that they were at risk.

COOPER: Soleimani was obviously, you know, a thug, a killer, responsible for the deaths of many Americans --

KAINE: Bad guy. Bad guy.

COOPER: -- and many, many others. What would have been wrong about killing him and just saying, well, you know, in general, he plots attacks and he plots actions against U.S. interests. Would that have been OK?

KAINE: Well, look, here's the situation. It wasn't just the killing of Soleimani, Anderson. It was that they killed him without notifying Congress or seeking congressional approval, when there's never been a declaration of war against Iran, and they killed him on Iraqi soil.

Iraq is an ally of ours and they've objected to the U.S. turning Iraq into -- you know, like a coliseum, where the U.S. and Iran will wage war to the detriment of Iraqis. So what you've ended up doing is nobody is sad that Soleimani is gone. Is Iran a bad actor? Sure. But this President has rushed us to the brink of war, where Iran and the United States are now inflicting battlefield casualties, each on the other without being plain with Congress and with the American public.

We got lied into a war with Iraq in 2002 and now everybody realizes it. The administration said that there were weapons of mass destruction and there weren't. The last thing we need to do is to be lied into another war with claims of imminent threats that didn't exist.

COOPER: The sheer number of inconsistencies that are routinely coming out of the administration, I mean, outright lies, whatever you want to call it, are you concerned about the message it sends to both allies and adversaries?

KAINE: Both. First, the allies begged us, stick with the diplomatic deal against Iran. You curtail their nuclear program and you've maintained all of your ability to sanction the other behavior. So, we have really messed up our relations with our allies by walking out of a deal that we worked on together with them as well as the President's horrible remarks about so many of our allies, now we've threatened our relationship with Iraq.

[20:35:03]

As you know, Anderson, this is a relationship that the U.S. has earned with blood and treasure sacrificed on behalf of the Iraqis, especially in the battle against ISIS. And now Iraq is asking the U.S. to leave the country because we ignored their objections to doing military strikes on Iraqi soil. So, yes, we have made our allies mad. We're emboldening our adversaries. Russia, Iran, and China just did joint naval exercises in the gulf. These are nations that don't have a good history of relationships with each other. But the President's actions are driving our adversaries together.

And this is exactly why the framers of the constitution said, look, war should be deliberated about carefully in front of the whole view of the American public, because we shouldn't be ordering our troops to risk their lives and health unless Congress is willing to put their thumbprint on it. We don't want this President or any president to take us into an unnecessary war on his own.

COOPER: And your War Powers Resolution, when do you think that might come to a vote?

KAINE: We think it's likely this week. Senator Schumer today said it will be voted on this week, so within the next few days. And the resolution is pretty simple. It says the U.S. is engaged in hostilities. We are. There's no previous congressional authorization that suggests we should be at war with Iran. There isn't. And basically, under the War Powers Act, I can then ask that the U.S. withdraw its troops from hostilities against Iran.

The two exceptions would be defending against an imminent attack, if there's real evidence that there is one the President can act on his own, or Congress can pass an authorization or declaration. So under those circumstances, we're going to protect ourselves. But we shouldn't let this President or any president rush us into a war, especially a war based on shifting explanations that are proven to be false.

COOPER: Senator Kaine, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

KAINE: Absolutely, Anderson.

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