CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Chris Murphy

Interview

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WILLIAMS: I would even further than that, Kirsten. Like, it would be foolish for a future president not to. It would be irrational for a future president not to know that the bar has been set so low for presidential conduct that now we've opened the door to exactly what you're saying to future presidents, inviting the intrusion of foreign governments into our system of elections. So, you're absolutely right.

COOPER: I've got to get a break in. Ahead tonight, a jurors' take on all my conversation with Democratic Senator Chris Murphy. Also later, more breaking news, audio appears to be of President Trump talking at a table that Lev Parnas was at, the man he says he doesn't know, and then demanding the firing of the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch which is something Lev Parnas himself said happened and now there's a tape released by his attorney.

[23:15:00]

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COOPER: Democrats made their closing arguments tonight, defenders of the president begin their case tomorrow morning, more history about to be made in a building that has seen so much already.

Earlier tonight impeachment scholar Michael Gerhart made the observation that in his final summation lead impeachment manager Adam Schiff was trying point by point, blow by blow to give Republicans no place to hide, if not politically than at least philosophically. Whether that will work as we've discussed in in question tonight, if not, I doubt.

Just before air time I spoke with one of the jurors, Senator Chris Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut.

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COOPER: Senator, the Democrats wrapped their case today. I wonder, are you satisfied with how it was presented and do you think any Republican minds were changed?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I think what's interesting, Anderson, is that a lot of these Republicans haven't seen this argument made before. A lot of them didn't watch the House testimony. A lot of them haven't seen Sondland and Taylor presented in public.

And so, while some of it might have seemed repetitive I think it was really important for Republican senators to sit through the entire timeline, the entire story of this corruption scheme.

I think many of them didn't understand how big it was. Now I don't know that that changes their mind but it makes the job on the president's lawyers awful tough.

And I think Representative Schiff understood that because he ended tonight, I think very effectively, by concentrating on all of the distractions that were going to be launched by the president's lawyers.

I think he's effectively come to the conclusion that the Trump lawyers aren't going to act -- aren't going to try to contest the facts. They aren't going to try to contest the corruption. They're going to just try to distract with, you know, how mean the House managers were to the president or how bad the Bidens are or how unfair the process was. I thought that was really an effective way for him to end.

COOPER: Earlier today you said that when it comes to calling witnesses you were much more optimistic last week than you are now. I wonder is it that -- what is it that changed your mind? Do you think there is any chance witnesses will be called?

MURPHY: I think there's absolutely a chance. I mean, I've talked to Senate Republicans who are still I think very willing to look at witnesses. But I also know this week, having been on the floor, that Senator McConnell, and the president's people, were pressing Republicans pretty hard to get in line.

And you started to hear these arguments that we just don't have enough time. If you want witnesses it's just going to take too long. Well, one witness is John Bolton who has told us he wants to testify. He's not going to take the Senate to court.

And he has a really important story to tell because as we've learned over the course of the last three days, he's one of the people that was in the room multiple times with Trump when Trump likely gave the orders for this scheme to be carried out. So, I think there's still a chance. I just know that the Republicans in the White House will work in this really hard this week.

COOPER: The president's attorneys obviously began their case tomorrow and as you said, Adam Schiff was sort of trying to preempt that by going over some of the arguments they're likely to make. How much do you expect them to focus on the Bidens, in particular, versus, you know, a step by step recounting of the president's actions and their interpretation of it?

MURPHY: I don't expect them to do any step by step recounting of the president's actions. They're not going to do a point by point rebuttal of the timeline because they can't.

The timeline is the timeline. The corruption scheme happened. They are absolutely, I think, going to spend an enormous amount of time trying to pre-litigate the 2020 general election.

[23:20:03]

Joe Biden may or may not be the candidate for the Democrats but this whole thing has been about trying to destroy who Trump sees as one of the strongest candidates. And if he didn't get it done behind the scenes with Ukraine he and his people are going to try and get it done on the floor of the Senate over the next three days.

I think that's why they are not really interested in spending too much time tomorrow, on Saturday they want as many eyes as possible on their reelection arguments that they are going to be making starting in large part on Monday.

COOPER: Just lastly, Republican Senator Ron Johnson claimed that the impeachment inquiry has actually damaged the U.S.-Ukraine relationship, adding, quote, "the sooner this ends, the better for America."

I'm not sure exactly what that's based on and how the impeachment inquiry could damage relations more than the president trying to extort Ukraine.

MURPHY: You know, Ron Johnson and I obviously have been part of this trial. We traveled to Ukraine as this corruption was unfolding. And, you know, President Zelensky told us to our face that he wanted to stay out of American elections, that he knew that getting dragged into U.S. politics was going to hurt him and hurt Ukraine.

So, President Zelensky told us to our face that it was the attempts by the Trump people to drag him into American politics that was doing the damage to him and his country and that is, of course, the truth.

Our responsibility is to get to the bottom of this corruption. And though, yes, when this trial is over it will be a little bit easier for people like Ron Johnson and I to get back together, working on pro-U.S. Ukraine policy.

Our responsibility now to our constituents, to the U.S. taxpayers is to find the truth and that truth cannot be found in whole without getting witnesses and documents.

COOPER: Senator Murphy, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

MURPHY: Thanks.

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