CBS "Face the Nation" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Bernie Sanders

Interview

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Joining us now for his take on the day and events leading up to it, Vermont senator, Democratic presidential candidate, Bernie Sanders.

Senator, thanks for being with us.

The mistake with this letter today, what does that say about this administration and what message do you think it sends to both allies and adversaries?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It says that there's mass chaos. That the administration hasn't a clue about what it is doing. But it's creating a very dangerous world scenario.

Just yesterday, you had Trump saying very loudly that if the Iraqis want us to leave, the Iraqi government want us to leave, we're going to impose trillions of dollars of sanctions. They're going to have to pay for everything that we spent. And the next thing we hear is, oh, we respect the sovereignty of Iraq. We're taking our troops back -- out.

And then a few hours later, we say, oh, that was a mistake. We are staying in. What kind of message does this send to the entire world?

But, Anderson, what frightens me most is what we are seeing now sounds very much like what I observed and the American people observed in terms of the war in Iraq, something that I vigorously opposed. What we heard was an administration lying about intelligence. We got involved in a war we never should have got involved in.

We lost 4,500 brave soldiers. Thousands more were wounded. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were displaced and died. We spent trillions of dollars on that war, that should have been spent at home, providing health care or rebuilding our infrastructure.

And now at the end of all of that, the government, the country that we were trying to save, to liberate says, get out, we don't want you anymore. So that lesson must be learned. And I think if anything, we get involved in a war in Iran, and in all likelihood, it will be even worse. And I will do everything I can as a United States senator, in terms of defunding any effort of the Trump administration to go to war, do anything I can to stop what I think will be another disaster.

COOPER: As you just referenced, the Iraqi parliament voted yesterday in favor of expels U.S. troops from the country. I mean, if American forces are actually expelled, and it's not clear it would actually come to that, would that be a good thing in your opinion? Because you've called to an end to endless wars in the Middle East.

SANDERS: The United States should have gotten our troops out of Iraq a long time ago. But it has to be done in an orderly manner in conjunction with the Iraqi government, so that the anti-terrorist activity can't continue.

[20:10:08]

It is not a good thing when after spending trillions of dollars and losing 4,500 soldiers that you are booted out of the country you went to liberate. That is not a good thing in any sense.

COOPER: The -- I'm wondering -- you had made a statement about the killing of Soleimani, who, you know, everybody agrees was a killer, responsible for the deaths of many American forces, as well as many civilians around the world. You called it an assassination.

Michael Bloomberg, fellow presidential candidate, said that was, quote, an outrageous thing to say. I wanted to give you the opportunity to respond to that.

SANDERS: No, I think it was an assassination. I think it was in violation of international law. This guy was (INAUDIBLE) -- was a bad news guy, but he was a ranking official of the Iranian government.

And you know what? Once you get into violating international law in that sense, you can say there are a lot of bad people all over the world running governments. Kim Jong-un in North Korea, not exactly a nice guy, responsible for the death, perhaps, of hundreds of thousands of people in his own country, to name one of many, you know?

The president of China now has put a million people in -- Muslims, into educational camps. Some would call them concentration camps.

But once you start this business of a major country saying, hey, we have the right to assassinate, then you're unleashing international anarchy. I think all --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Sorry, go ahead. No, no, I'll let you finish. Sorry.

SANDERS: No. I mean, and all that Trump seems to be doing now is trying to break all kinds of international protocol, denying the foreign minister of Iran to speak before the United Nations, and really basically trying to lead us into another war, which I believe will be a disaster.

COOPER: If Soleimani was a non-state actor, not a general, an official, a high-ranking official in the Iranian government, would it be different in your mind?

SANDERS: I'm not a lawyer on these things, it might be. But this guy is, you know, was, as bad as he was, an official of the Iranian government.

And you unleash -- then if China does that, you know, if Russia does that, you know, Russia has been implicated under Putin with assassinating dissidents. So once you're in the business of assassination, you unleash some very, very terrible forces. And what I'm seeing now in this world, as a result of Trump's actions, more and more chaos, more and more instability.

And it is absolutely imperative that the United States Congress stand up, because, by the way, let us never forget that according to the constitution of the United States, on which some of us actually believe in and respect, it is Congress that has the responsibility for making war, not the president of the United States. And that is why we have got to pass an authorization, legislation that makes it very clear that Trump does not have the right to go to war without the authorization of the United States Congress, and also, I will work to make sure that he doesn't have the money to do that.

COOPER: There's more I want to talk to you about. If you can, please just stick around. We're going to take a quick break and talk more about the president talking about targeting cultural sites. Also, about politics here at home, what appears to be a three-way tie in Iowa, impeachment, and some very big breaking news.

Also, John Bolton saying he would now be willing to testify during a Senate impeachment trial if subpoenaed. The question, of course, if he serious and what would the White House do? Would they allow that even to happen?

We'll be right back.

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[20:18:18]

COOPER: We've been talking with senator Bernie Sanders about the airstrikes that killed Qasem Soleimani, his death and the political debate over national security that it's provoked. It comes as the race for the Democratic nomination continues to heat up, 28 days until Iowa, 36 in New Hampshire.

In Iowa, Senator Sanders, Joe Biden, and Pete Buttigieg are in a three-way tie at 23 percent. In New Hampshire, Bernie Sanders at 27 percent followed closely by Biden at 25 percent. Those numbers from both states are according to a new poll from CBS News and YouGov.

In both cases, Senator Sanders is in the lead with Joe Biden tied or right behind him. We'll get to that polling in a second. I want to stay on Iran,

though, for a moment with you, Senator Sanders.

Your Democratic colleague, Senator Murphy, tweeted that targeting civilians and cultural sites, quote, is what terrorists do. He also said it's a war crime. Do you agree with him? Because that is something the Taliban did in Afghanistan --

SANDERS: That's right. That's right.

COOPER: -- and, obviously, ISIS did in Syria and elsewhere.

SANDERS: Absolutely, I agree with the senator. It is a war crime. And to be learning from the Taliban about destroying cultural sites is unbelievable.

But in addition to all of this, Anderson, one thing we have got to not forget, in America today, domestically, we have enormous crises.

Tonight, half a million Americans, including 30,000 veterans, are homeless. We've got 87 million people who are uninsured or are underinsured. We have an infrastructure which is crumbling.

We have enormous needs facing our country. And the idea of spending trillions of dollars more on an endless war in Iran is to me just beyond comprehension.

[20:20:01]

COOPER: I want to focus a little bit on domestic policy, obviously, with Iowa and New Hampshire coming up. You said, recently, about Vice President Biden, his record, you said, to "The Washington Post," quote, is just a lot of baggage that Joe takes into a campaign, which isn't going to create energy and excitement.

Is there something specifically you were referring to in terms of baggage?

SANDERS: Sure. I mean, look, Joe and I are friends and I truly like Joe. But what is imperative is that we defeat Trump, the most dangerous president in modern history. And that means you're going to have to have a huge voter turnout. You're going to have to get working people excited. You're going to have to get young people excited.

Joe Biden voted and helped lead the effort for the war in Iraq, the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in the modern history of this country. Joe Biden voted for the disastrous trade agreements, like NAFTA, and permanent normal trade relations with China, which cost us millions of jobs. You think that's going to play well in Michigan or Wisconsin or Pennsylvania?

You know, Joe Biden has been on the floor of the Senate, talking about the need to cut Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid. Joe Biden pushed a bankruptcy bill, which has caused enormous financial problems for working families. So, if we're going to beat Trump, we need turnout. And to get

turnout, you need energy and excitement. And I just don't think that that kind of record is going to bring forth the energy we need to defeat Trump.

COOPER: Senator Elizabeth Warren was asked by Jake Tapper yesterday why she believes her Medicare-for-All transition plan is better than yours. I want to play her response so that you have an opportunity to respond to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It gets the most help to the most people the quickest possible. Help starts on day one. And then it's full health care coverage, for 135 million people to be able to opt into it at absolutely no cost.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: S do you think his is unrealistic?

WARREN: We can do that on a 50-vote -- we can do that on a 50-vote budget reconciliation and get help to people. Let people experience it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Does her plan, in your opinion, get the most help to the most people, the quickest possible?

SANDERS: I think my plan makes a lot more sense, and this is why. For a hundred years, Anderson, from Teddy Roosevelt on, we have been talking about the need for health care for all. But as I think everybody understands, the reason we are not doing that, the reason why we are -- we have 87 million people uninsured and underinsured, why we spend twice as much per capita as the people of any other country, and why the health care industry last year made $100 billion, they have the power. They dictate. They and the drug companies dictate what happens in health care.

When I win or at least when I hope I win the election, we will have the momentum in this country to finally tell the drug companies who are charging us by far the highest prices in the world, the insurance companies who are ripping us, that finally, finally, we are going to move to a Medicare for all single-payer system, with millions of people standing up and demanding that.

Our program, my legislation, is a four-year transition period. And the first year, we expand Medicare to cover hearing aids, dental care, eyeglasses, and home health care. And we lower the eligibility age from 65 to 55. That's in the first year. I think there will be massive support for that idea. And the next year, it's 45, 35, and in four years, everybody is in.

That is the easiest way to bring universal health care to all Americans.

COOPER: Obviously, there's questions about cost. We'll address that another time.

Senator Sanders, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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