CBS "Face the Nation" - Transcript: Interview with Senator Chris Murphy
Interview
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MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. We're joined now by Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, who is on the Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, good to have you here. Good morning.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY (D-Connecticut/@ChrisMurphyCT/Foreign Relations Committee): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You heard Secretary Pompeo and Senator Rubio say that if Qasem Soleimani had not been killed, there would have potentially been hundreds of Americans who would have been casualties. Do you believe that there was an imminent attack?
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Well, first, it's incumbent upon the administration to present that evidence to Congress. But even if there was an imminent attack and there are always threats being presented to U.S. forces in the region by Iran and Iranian proxies, the responsibility is on the administration to prove to us that by taking out the second most powerful political figure inside Iran, they are preventing more attacks rather than inspiring additional attacks. The reason that the Bush administration and the Obama administration did not green-light the execution--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: --of Qasem Soleimani, despite the fact that he was carrying out attacks on U.S. forces, is because they believed, ultimately, that would get more Americans killed. And you can already see the consequences of U.S. security in the region with, as you have noted, the beginning of the process to expel American forces from Iraq.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We know that there was some notification given to Congress. You heard Senator Rubio say he knew what the threat was, but couldn't share it. Who in Congress actually knows what happened?
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: So my understanding is that there was no consultation with Congress before this strike. That is in violation of the War Powers Act. And there has been very limited communication since then. I would hope that we will get a full briefing, but that briefing not only has to talk about the intel behind the attack--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: --but why it was absolutely necessary to take this dramatic escalatory step. We do not generally execute high-level political figures of sovereign nations, in part because we know that that opens a Pandora's box--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: --it may expose American officials to assassination, but also because we know that, ultimately, that might get more Americans killed as it like the will in this case.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The administration had designated the part of the IRGC that Soleimani ran as a terror group, which is sort of the cover that you heard Secretary Pompeo referred to in saying he was a terrorist as well. That argument doesn't hold up to you.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Well, he does not have authorization from Congress to go to war with Iran. And this potentially sets us on a course to do just that. Listen, this administration's Iran policy has been a disaster from the very beginning. Iran is more powerful today than at the beginning of the Trump administration. They have restarted the nuclear program. They have more influence in places like Yemen and in Syria. And now they are on the verge of launching potentially disastrous strikes against the United States. That is a disaster from the beginning to the end of this administration's policy towards Iran.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Just a few minutes ago, you said execute Qasem Soleimani. And on Twitter and on camera earlier this week, you used the word assassinate. Technically, that's prohibited under U.S. law. You chose that word for a reason. It's politically loaded. Why do you think that is needed here?
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Well, I don't know any other way to describe it. This was the intentional execution of a high-level official in a sovereign nation. Qasem Soleimani is an evil man. He has absolutely ordered the murder of hundreds of Americans. But he is a high-level representative of a foreign government, a foreign government with a military that could-- that could strike at American civilians and American service people. The question is why didn't the administration look at other means to try to stop this attack from happening? Reporting suggests that his own military leaders were shocked--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: --that the President chose an assassination versus more targeted strikes against other Iranian or Iranian proxy assets in the region.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Which is why I thought it was notable when the secretary said that all Cabinet members had agreed and top national security advisers. I want to ask you, because you-- you've been critical of whether this was legal for the President to do this and, specifically, this authorization of military force debate. I spoke with the former Obama administration, DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson. I'm sure you know him.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He used to be general counsel at the Pentagon. And he said this: " direct engagement of a senior military official of another nation is harder to justify under the AUMF," which is your part of-- your argument. But "having said that, under existing Office of Legal Counsel opinions, it's plain the President had constitutional authority to use lethal force against General Soleimani as vital national interests were implicated. Therefore, no congressional authorization was required." That's the former Pentagon lawyer, a Democrat. Why is he wrong?
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: So, in this case, the President has the burden of explaining to the American public and to Congress why the strike against Qasem Soleimani was necessary to prevent future attacks against the United States. There is a general understanding that to prevent future attacks, imminent attacks, you can take action without Congress. The contention here is that by assassinating a high-level Iranian official, that you are actually going to inspire and create more attacks against the United States, not actually prevent those attacks. And so that's the burden of--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But so they could argue, though, that--
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: --proof that he has.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --that by imminent, they meant ongoing. Qasem Soleimani was always targeting U.S. interests.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. So, it-- it was always imminent.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: So, that-- so, if that's the case, that isn't an imminent attack. If this is just the same set of threats that have existed to the United States personnel in the region for the last seven years--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: --then in that case, then the administration absolutely has the responsibility to come and get an authorization from Congress before taking action against a sovereign nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know there are a lot of people listening who will hear that and say, yes, particularly in the military, that'd be great if Congress did something about the AUMF. But, look, they haven't because when they get their own party's leader in the Oval Office no one wants to do something that's actually going to constrain the powers of the executive.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Right. But, listen, the President is bound by what Congress gives him the authority to do. The-- the framers of the Constitution didn't give him the ability to start a war just because it was hard to get authorization from Congress. The framers wanted us to have the power because they were worried about exactly what's going on now. The President, by pulling out of the Iran deal, has set into a-- a motion--
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is the AUMF from 2002.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There was the entire Obama administration. You're saying the reason nothing was updated to this point is what?
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: The-- the risk is much greater today. Right? That-- when President Trump came into office, he set into motion a series of blind, escalatory measures with Iran that now have us on the precipice of war. And if he is contemplating taking future military action against a broad set of threats to the American public, then he has the responsibility to come to Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And he'll veto any authorization, if there was one, that's put in legislation and sent to his desk, you know that.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Well, again, he can't act without authorization from-- from Congress unless he is responding to an imminent threat. And he has the responsibility now to prove to us that this was, in fact, an imminent threat. Again, the-- the worry here is ultimately this is going to get more Americans killed. And the very fact that we are watching the Iraqis expel the United States from-- from Iraq so that we can't carry out the fight against ISIS, right? Which is in many ways a more grave threat to American interests in the region than Iran--
MARGARET BRENNAN: That may not be a final decision, yes.
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: --than Iran is. I think it is proof that this ultimately may accrue to the detriment of American national security interests.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Murphy, thank you for coming in--
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Thank you.
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