CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Steve Cohen

Interview

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Let's get some more on all of this. Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee is joining us. He's a key member of the Judiciary Committee. Congressman thanks so much for joining us. Let me get your reaction. The White House, as you just heard, has now turned down your committee's invitation to participate in the impeachment hearings in the House, they're calling the inquiry completely baseless and a charade. What is your response to the Trump administration?

REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): Well, it is pretty clear from the hearing we had Monday that the Republicans couldn't answer any of the issues concerning Trump's behavior. They all did process and just try to stay in the process. The facts are clear. The president abused his power. He betrayed his oath and he corrupted the country's election process or tried to. This is classic founding fathers fears concerning betrayal of the nation and why we needed to have an impeachment article and not just an election to save the country from another prejudice, illegal election and from foreign relations that could jeopardize our national security. They don't have a defense.

And Trump - don't go in the House - won't go in the House but go to the Senate. They've kind of cooked the books there. That is home cooking. He's even been buddies with Mitt Romney over there. But the fact is Trump would never testify in the House because Trump and an oath are two things that don't go together and he was not going to testify under oath because he'd be guilty of perjury.

BLITZER: Do you think your committee Chairman Jerry Nadler should have negotiated with the White House more to try to encourage its participation?

COHEN: I don't think there was no way to negotiate with them. They were never going to come to the House. They're going to save everything they've got for the Senate. They'll try to get the rules to be most acceptable to them where they can do whatever they want to do.

And Justice Roberts might be able to stop some of the shenanigans they're going to try to pull there but I'm sure Mitch McConnell will work with them. And you know they -- the president is guilty. He will not be found guilty by the Senate but he is guilty of committing impeachable offenses, obstruction of Congress, obstruction of justice and abuse of power. It is clear as the nose on his face. It is clear as the gray hair underneath the orange powdered hair he has on his head.

BLITZER: As you know, some of your colleagues, moderate Democrats I should say, they're growing frustrated with your party leadership warning that including the Mueller investigation findings, for example, in the articles of impeachment could make it more difficult for them to vote in favor of these articles you just heard a couple of them make that point. Where do you stand?

COHEN: Well, I would like to see personally if I was you know running the show, I would like to have some of the Mueller information there. But I understand that we need to work with our caucus and that is what Nancy Pelosi does so beautifully and we do have a tight case on Ukraine and the fact that the president will be impeached and will not be convicted no matter what we had, if we had him shooting somebody on Fifth Avenue right in front of -- I was going to say FAO Schwarz but it is no longer there. But right there about the Plaza Hotel, they would not convict him, with the whole Republican Senators saw it. They would not convict him. So let's make it the easiest we can for the process and for our moderates and keep the caucus together and I would say stick with Ukraine.

BLITZER: One of those more moderate Democrats you just heard from him, Max Rose, was asked specifically if he's spoken with some of the more liberal members of your committee. And he said this and let me quote him. He said, "I have emphasized no more bringing buckets of chicken to hearings." As you know, that sounds like a reference to your decision a while back to bring some fried chicken to a hearing when the attorney general failed to appear. We're showing some video of that to our viewers. So what is your response to that comment?

COHEN: I have a great deal of respect for Gil Cisneros. He made a nice statement and I agree that we probably should stick to the Ukraine issues.

BLITZER: Well what about Max Rose, what he had to say?

COHEN: I don't really know Max Rose very well. He's not a very significant player in the House.

BLITZER: Well, he's a Democrat from New York. So he's obviously got some say and he's clearly concerned about what is going on.

Let me ask you this. When will a decision on the scope of the articles be made?

COHEN: I suspect it will be made over the weekend. We'll probably have it Monday or Tuesday with our committee. Monday, of course, we'll be receiving information from the Intelligence Committee and that we may find out Monday, it may be Tuesday. A lot of this would be kept close to the vest and that makes sense.

BLITZER: On Monday the Intelligence Committee lawyers, they will present their evidence to your committee. The hearings Monday morning. So, walk us through. What do you think is going to happen during the course of that hearing?

COHEN: I suspect the Republicans will try to attack the information the Intelligence Committee is going to report. They're going to suggest that a lot it hearsay. They're going to object to hearsay evidence which is of course is admissible but they are going to try to claim that their Perry Mason like are judged - so whatever her name is, Judge Judy and try to object and they would probably make motions -- to adjourn and they'll try to -- obstruct the hearing but they will question the facts and they'll question some of the facts that were presented and say that they're hearsay and of course, a lot of here.

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But the president's statement about talking to the president of Ukraine, saying by the way there's a favor we would like to ask. That's the biggest admission against interest that we've ever had. And that's sufficient to prove it. And then you got Mulvaney coming out and going that is just politics get used it. He basically admitted it too. And Sondland said they were all in the game. They were all in the loop. And that they wanted to go on CNN -- well I'm happy to be on CNN. But if you are concerned about national security, you just want him to have a press - first we want to have him to an investigation and not let the people you're investigating know you are investigating them. And they even want him to announce indictments and have it on every TV station in the world. The fact that he wanted it just announce the investigation and to announce it on CNN shows some kind of a sick political mind that is strictly looking out for himself and not for the national interest.

BLITZER: Very strong views from Congressman Steve Cohen. Congressman thanks so much for joining us.

COHEN: Nice to be with you, Wolf. It's nice to be in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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