MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: "Cabinet member wrongdoing."
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
O`DONNELL: Today all ten Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee called on Republican Chairman Lindsey Graham to obtain and investigate the whistleblower reports and hold a hearing with Attorney General William Barr. In a letter today the senators wrote we have a constitutional responsibility to determine the reasons for the whistleblowers report and why it is being withheld from Congress. We therefore ask that you convene hearings to address the facts underlying the whistle blower`s report. The administration`s refusal to provide that report to Congress in contravention of the law and any legal advice provided by the Department of Justice or the White House Counsel on these matters and joining us now is one of the co-signers of that letter, Democratic Senator Cory Booker, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Booker is also a democratic candidate for President. Senator, thank you very much for joining us.
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Lawrence, it`s good to be here tonight.
O`DONNELL: This - so this goes to the question of what did William Barr do in this process. The law provides no moment at which the Director of National Intelligence should consult the Justice Department about what to do and yet that happened.
BOOKER: The law is very clear. They use the word that is we know in Congress very well, it`s the word not `may`, it is `shall.` Nancy Pelosi was a 100 percent right tonight when she said they did not abide by the law. This is clear. Congress should be in possession of that report and those who have not done it to me acted not only in contrary to the law but given the subject matter here, this is a moment where all of us as Americans even those of us who you injured by Donald Trump, want him to be on, this is we need to take a sober pause and understand that this must be seen through the lens of patriotism. And what is at stake for our country right now. I`ve visited Ukraine as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. I`ve met with their soldiers who are relying on the aid of this country, who are on in the Donbass region in eastern Ukraine who are under attack by the Russians who had already annexed Crimea. This is a hot war going on in Europe where there are specific American interests in that region and to understand that the gravity of what the Russians are doing, not just to Ukraine but talk to Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians. Talk to the mischief when I was in Poland, this time with our military officials who called it a hybrid war we`re in right now. With the Russians working, whether it`s the hot aspects of it in the Donbass region in Ukraine or the last time in the Senate I went into the bunker we have to read intelligence reports about what the Russians are doing to interfere with our democracy right now. They are actively attacking the United States. Congress is working in a bipartisan manner to give the critical resources, I saw with my own eyes, heard from generals in the field that that they need to defend themselves to protect their lives, to serving American interests. And this is a President United States, forget partisanship or party, the President of United States was withholding aid in a bipartisan Congress wanted to send not for any national security reason but for petty political attempt to yet again undermine America`s elections.This is insidious and it must be dealt with in a patriotic bipartisan manner. This cannot be acceptable in America.
O`DONNELL: What happened in the Senate today? Why did Mitch McConnell go on with this unanimous consent request?
BOOKER: I`m not sure and I`ve stopped long ago trying to figure out the mind of Mitch McConnell but I can`t imagine a moment where Chuck Schumer stood on the Senate floor and requested unanimous consent, someone has to come to the floor and object. And I can imagine a moment where someone comes to the floor and objects to the Senate having access to a report that the law says it should have, it kind of puts you on a difficult footing. I`m not sure if all the Republicans and clearly what we`re seeing now the Senate intelligence committee that there are many Republicans that agree we should have this report. So the more I think about it, the more I understand that this was perhaps the right thing for Mitch McConnell to do for a number of the reasons that are part of that man`s calculus and how he deals in the senate.
O`DONNELL: Could it also be part of the Presidential campaign in the following way. Mitch McConnell knows this is actually coming up. It cannot be stopped. The sooner it comes out for Mitch McConnell, the better because a year from now say, or in the middle of the Republican convention, he doesn`t want his nominee hit with something like this. Then this gives him time to make a plan for different nominee if he has to.
BOOKER: You know, Mitch McConnell is definitely one of those people you know when the senate is playing three dimensional chess. And I`m sure there are layers of their thinking of this and forgive me for not thinking on those layers because I think this is a moment where politics should be damned and we should sit, understanding that we will be judged by history. What did we do when a United States President was betraying his office, betraying Congress, betraying the self - the national security interests of this country to yet pursue attacks on a political opponent. This to me is very dramatic. We are in a very dramatic moment in American history and we should be clear enough to let patriotism be the day, not partisanship.
O`DONNELL: Has the President in effect confessed now publicly to a high crime when he said today, when he talked about, I would withhold again meaning I did withhold.
BOOKER: Yes, to me it just seemed another moment that is consistent with his past of reckless defiance of our laws and our norms, starting back when he was on the campaign where he said, hey Russians, you know, investigate - get the emails - which is exactly the criminal activity that went on in stealing the emails of Secretary Clinton. So this is not out of character with him and I think again, this is yet another reason why the House of Representatives and Nancy Pelosi did what they did today, it was too much of a flaunting of our constitution and of our national security by a President that clearly is in reckless disregard for our nation`s best intent.
O`DONNELL: And Adam Schiff tonight saying that the President in this phone call does not have to specifically say, I won`t give you the money if you don`t do the investigation. Adam Schiff`s point being that of course, it can be implied. Let`s listen to what the Chairman of your Committee of the Judiciary Committee said with Sean Hannity tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R): Tomorrow when we read the transcript, is there any evidence at all that President Trump threatened to take it away from the Ukraine unless they investigate Biden or do his--
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST, THE SEAN HANNITY SHOW: The answer here is no, Senator. What are you hearing?
GRAHAM: I don`t know but I`ll tell you this, if the answer is yes, I`ll be on your show very disappointed with our President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: What would you say to your Chairman?
BOOKER: I agree with Adam Schiff. We all know how this works. If he was taking actions and the evidence is mounting that he was specifically taking action to deny aid. I`ve heard a number of things from commercial colleagues today that give me great suspicion this is what he was doing. If the evidence is mounting that he actually took those actions and then eight times in a conversation kept pressing this point, I think you`re beginning to have a refutable picture of this President acting against the national interest and trying to do something that is thuggish frankly when it comes to the national stage that is a defiling of the presidency, of that office, of our country and he should be held to account.
O`DONNELL: Let me ask you something about running a Presidential campaign in the midst of this kind of atmosphere. A couple of minutes of what we discussed here tonight was your view from a Presidential perspective about an important foreign policy situation that you would inherit as President, Ukraine policy. So that that was a good serious presidential level conversation about that. There are 10 other presidential issues I know you`d like to discuss, we`re not going to. We`re not going to talk about your criminal justice policies tonight. We`re not going to talk about any of - any of your economic policies tonight. We - our time is devoted to this. Does this make running for President now more difficult challenge that it would in a flatter news environment.
BOOKER: You know I think one of the greatest privileges I had in my life is to serve in the United States Senate and to be able to serve my country especially in times like this, in times of natural disaster, in times of crisis, to have the privilege of being there to fight for people. And so there are individual ambitions, there are campaigns going on but you have to separate those two and do your job. So today, this is a painfully historic day in many ways the fourth time in the history of our Republic that this has happened and for good reason. So I`m sitting in the saddle, I`m doing my job as United States Senator. The Presidential campaign will, whatever will happen will happen but this is one of those times that politics, partisanship, that all of those things should be put aside for the purpose that we all have. And I hope that first and foremost, we all are patriotic Americans who when times are tough, we will focus in on what`s important and do our jobs.
O`DONNELL: President Trump couldn`t do what he does without the staff who does it for him. Don McGahn showed that. He ordered Don McGahn to fire Robert Mueller and Don McGahn didn`t do it. This Director of National Intelligence has done what the President wants. He could have gone the other way. McGuire could have gone the other way. The Justice Department has done what the President wants on this whistle blower report. What should be the penalties for the people who don`t approach this work the way Don McGahn did and refuse to do the illegal things that the President wants them to do.
BOOKER: Well, let me just say number one, if you`re breaking the law, you`re breaking the law and you should be held accountable and I think that that is something that we should be looking at at every step of the way of holding people accountable because every time we don`t, we`re creating a perverse incentive in the future for people to act in this way. But I just want to say and I`ve seen this, I`ve been saying this from the beginning of the Trump administration. Those people who are enabling him, who assuage their conscious, witness the kind of things he does on a regular basis and we`ve heard the reports. I`ve heard your reporting. The kind of things this person does to do moral vandalism in that office, those people that are enabling him, there is a cold, frigid place under the historical eye. They will go down in history as despicable actors who have enabled one of the President`s who is doing some of the worst things to that office in the entire history of our country. The truth comes out. The truth about Donald Trump will come out. That is why we will defeat him and 2020 if he`s still there. But these people, I have a - I have a very low regard for people who know he`s doing wrong but still enable him, defend him and in many ways empower him to remain in that Office.
O`DONNELL: Senator Cory Booker, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Please come back. We can - on a segment we can devote to your actual campaign.
BOOKER: I appreciate that.
O`DONNELL: Admissions and policies, we`re going to try to get one of those segments in one of these nights when we--
BOOKER: This is what`s important and thank you very much.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source