CNN "Erin Burnett Out Front" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Mike Turner"

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BROWN: Breaking news: The White House is ramping up its outreach to Senate Republicans ahead of a likely impeachment trial. Today, a number of key Senate Republicans huddling with the president at the White House to talk strategy. This after criticism that the White House paid too little attention to the president's defenders in the House. Republicans there complaining about the lack of guidance and strategy from the White House on impeachment.

Well, the White House has still not hired a communications team to handle the strategy there, and it hasn't brought on any new lawyers to handle the legal strategy. Many Republicans and advisers remain deeply frustrated with the way the White House is handling the entire situation.

Well, OUTFRONT tonight, Republican Congressman Mike Turner. He sits on the House Intelligence Committee.

Thank you so much for coming on.

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): Thanks, Pamela.

BROWN: I want to start with that, this frustration among White House aides and advisers that the president hasn't really allowed his team to form an adequate defense on impeachment. Do you think that the White House has made a mistake here by not having a more robust legal and communications team in place by now?

TURNER: Well, you know, certainly, part of the travesty for today it was certainly evidenced by the panel that you just had as you had people on your show who were talking about the testimony that was happening today, but yet not one person saw it. All these hearings are happening in secret. Adam Schiff is making certain that no one sees what occurs down there.

I can tell you one thing, though. I did sit in the hearing and Tim Morrison did not say there was quid pro quo, even though a lot of your panelists seem to believe that they did. I think that certainly was Adam Schiff's intention was to put the White House on a disadvantage just as you're at a disadvantage because no one other than those on the Intelligence Committee know what's happening down in that room, and that's what I think is unfortunate because the American public deserved to see this. They deserved to know and you deserve to know.

When you have a panel that's doing an analysis you should have witnessed what Tim Morrison was saying.

BROWN: Part of what happened today with this vote is that moving forward, there will be more public hearings. I mean, does that take away the Republican talking point?

TRUNER: It's not really guaranteed. I mean, the resolution says he can have public hearings and he could have had public hearings before and there's nothing that's new in this.

There are some things in it that are troubling and for example, it says that the ranking member, the Republican, on the committee can't pick up who he wants to question the witness and they can only ask staff, and I don't understand why they wouldn't let other members of Congress, why they would limit members of Congress' questions who they would call.

BROWN: So, you say that basically, the White House -- it's not their fault because this is all closed-door testimony and there's certainly no way for them to have a better strategy.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: You didn't answer my question. But do you think that they should have a more robust communication than legal team?

TURNER: I think certainly as this evolves they will and they're going to have to, but even today, most of what you're reporting on is speculation. But I can tell you this --

BROWN: But a lot of this does come from his opening statement as well, that was released where he does say look, this transcript was a fair and accurate representation. I didn't think it was legally problematic, though he was clearly concerned it would be negative for the White House if it was leaked out. And you say that he didn't say that there was quid pro quo, but the reporting is that he was told by Sondland that the president would release that military aid in exchange for Ukraine announcing the investigation to Biden, is that not accurate?

TURNER: I mean, first off --

BROWN: You don't have to say something is quid pro quo for it to be quid pro quo, that's communicated, in other words.

TURNER: What's important is that we shouldn't to talk about what the reporting is. You should have seen this today. This should have been open to all of the public.

Now, one thing that is also important and I am very concerned about moving forward. Kurt Volker and Tim Morrison both have first-hand knowledge of what was going on and what occurred, right?

BROWN: Uh-huh.

TURNER: A lot of other people, Vindman and Taylor are talking about in their testimony and you see that in the opening statements that have been released and things that they heard or other people that they talked to. I'm very concerned that we could be in a situation where Adam Schiff decides to call forward those who talked to other people instead of those people who can tell us directly what they actually know.

BROWN: Well, Vindman was on the call, as we know it.

TURNER: Recall that he testified on things that he had no direct knowledge of and those are things that Tim Morrison -- he reported to Tim Morrison. He was a military detailee to Tim. Tim is the guy who ought to be testifying in public, and he should have been testifying in public today.

BROWN: Vindman did have knowledge. He didn't interact with the president like a Tim Morrison did, but Vindman did.

TURNER: Remember, this is about the president, right? I mean, so, if you -- if you have Ambassador Kurt Volker and Tim Morrison at the National Security Council both having direct knowledge of what's occurring, you have the president of the United States, you have the president of Ukraine and we're all getting their statements and testimony. Those who were on the outside who have heard from others, who have had conversations with people about what they think or believe or might feel really aren't important.

[19:45:00]

BROWN: And I know that that is something that the White House officials speak to that hone in on the second-hand information and it's hearsay. You have the president who continues to say that it was the perfect phone call. In fact, he just said it today in a radio interview and here's what he said.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The transcript of the -- of the call that I have with the Ukrainian president is a perfect and totally appropriate document.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: You have said that this call was not OK.

TURNER: Right, I don't agree to that. I believe that it's not that.

BROWN: Why? Do you wish the president would stop saying that?

TURNER: You know, there is a difference between okay and impeachable. Take the vote today. There was a vote today for impeachment proceedings by a number of people who already were on record to impeach the president before this call even happened.

So today was a political vote. This was a political impeachment.

BROWN: Yes, but they also gave -- the Republicans were asking for more transparency in the process.

TURNER: Well, we'll have to see because it says -- all it says is that you can have public hearings. It doesn't require it. It doesn't require that the transcripts be released.

It certainly doesn't require that tomorrow, you get to read Tim Morrison's testimony, which I truly believe that Tim Morrison's testimony today was devastating for them. And if you had that, you'd be kind of surprised to see what the contrast between what people who have actual knowledge are saying, and those who are speculating.

BROWN: But I have to ask you. Now, that, you know, the inquiry is underway, are you open to it proceeding and are you open to voting for impeachment if it goes that way for you?

TURNER: Well, I mean, again, I have already sat through hearings and read transcripts and there is not one thing in these hearings and transcripts -- obviously, I can't tell you what people said, but I can tell you what people didn't say. No one has walked in said, I have direct knowledge that an official with authority in the United States government under the direction of the president of the United States told the Ukraine that they must undertake the investigation of the Bidens in the 2016 elections or the Burisma or their aid will not be released. There has not been --

BROWN: If that is revealed, would that be enough for you to vote?

TURNER: I think it certainly changes that mix (ph), but I can tell you this, it hasn't --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: What about Mick Mulvaney saying that from the podium at the White House saying, yes, it was that? And then, of course, he walked it back.

TURNER: Well, he said a portion of that and he didn't say all that and then he did walk it back, but the issue is this is -- they've been asking a lot of people. Remember the whistle-blower came forward and they didn't say and the whistle-blower didn't say that there was this quid pro quo and the aid and these investigations. They said actually there was quid pro quo for you must dig up dirt on my opponent. Well, that's been proven to be absolutely not the case. Of course, the whistleblower had no and there was no direct knowledge of the things they were speaking, but the cited people that did.

These are people that we've interviewed and we've had depositions for and still -- the circumstances and the facts aren't changing other than the testimony that you've read of the telephone call as to how it was reported.

BROWN: But the testimony has largely backed up what the whistle- blower has said.

TURNER: Well, you don't know that. You haven't seen any of it.

BROWN: Well, we've seen many of the opening statement. We saw Taylor's opening statement where it talked about --

TURNER: Right. So, I re-read Taylor's opening statement when I was here, and I would encourage you to do the same, because he says, I believe, I was told, I felt. There is not --

BROWN: And didn't Morrison back up what he said in his testimony? I guess, actually, I did tell Taylor that.

TURNER: There were portions that related specifically to conversations with Tim Morrison where Tim Morrison did say that I backed it up and others said he's not and Tim Morrison did not back up that there was quid pro quo with the Ukraine and either funding or a meeting with the president of the United States.

BROWN: Did Tim Morrison say that Sondland told him that the president said he would release the funding if the Ukraine announces his investigation of the Biden?

TURNER: I can't tell you what he did say, but I can tell you what he didn't say, and what I did tell is that he didn't say any of those things that have been reported.

Now, here's the point that I make a point to frequently which I think is kind of important. It's not proper. It's illegal. We're not permitted to go into a classified hearing or a confidential deposition and walk out and tell you what happened, but it is not against the law for people to come out and lie to you.

And I think the reports that you're getting are a lot of people that are misrepresenting for their own purposes what's happened behind closed doors. I assure you what was happening behind closed doors supported the impeachment of the president of the United States, it would not be happening behind closed doors. It would be happening right on --

BROWN: You would happen if all of the witness testimony to open. OK.

TURNER: They all should have been. They all should have been.

BROWN: Thank you so much, Congressman. Appreciate it.

TURNER: Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source