CNN "Erin Burnett Out Front" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Andre Carson"
Interview
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HARLOW: Yes. There's a reason there's a whistleblower statute and the reason that whistleblowers are protected now in this country. Manu, thank you very much for that reporting. Let's talk about it with Democratic Congressman Andre Carson of Indiana. He, of course, is a member of the Intelligence Committee.
Good morning, sir. And thank you for being with me. It is your committee that is behind the subpoena for those documents from Rudy Giuliani. The President has as you know cited executive privilege over and over again to shield documents from making their way to Congress.
[19:05:00]
Do you expect something to be different this time? Do you expect Rudy Giuliani to fully cooperate and hand over all of those documents?
REP. ANDRE CARSON (D-IN): Well, as a former prosecutor and a lawyer, I would expect for Mr. Giuliani to understand this process. I would hope that he would act in a cooperative manner. If he is someone who is truly concerned about the preservation of our democracy and upholding our constitutional rights as Members of Congress, he should be willing to cooperate.
HARLOW: On Friday, he said about your Committee that it is not legitimate and it is a "sad joke" and then he said this just yesterday on ABC this week when he was directly asked will he cooperate.
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GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CHIEF ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: Will you cooperate with the House Intelligence Committee?
RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I wouldn't cooperate with Adam Schiff. I think Adam should be removed.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That's your answer. You're not going to cooperate.
GIULIANI: I didn't say that. I said I will consider it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: He did say that, but given that Giuliani might tell you at this point, Congressman, that the sky is not blue, how do you measure the value of what he says to you guys and what he turns over to your Committee?
CARSON: Well, Giuliani has a reputation of being a smart man or he had a reputation of being a smart man. It seems more clear that Mr. Giuliani is impressionable. He's been hanging around Donald Trump, so he's flip flopping just like the President.
Again, my hope is that Mr. Giuliani will cooperate with the Committee and understand that Chairman Schiff is an accomplished leader, a very thoughtful leader, a fellow prosecutor might I add. And so I think that this is Mr. Giuliani's time to preserve what's left of his reputation and work in a cooperative manner with those of us on the Intel Committee.
HARLOW: It's interesting, you sound very hopeful, A, that Giuliani will cooperate and B, that he will be forthcoming with you. I wonder seeing how the Corey Lewandowski testimony went just a few weeks ago in public, the circus that was, frankly, if it would be more prudent for Democrats to question Rudy Giuliani in private.
CARSON: It doesn't matter at this point. I think that the whole Trump administration has become a circus. So if you give them more cameras, you're going to get more theatrics. You're going to get more pageantry. We need to get to the facts.
The Intel Committee has known to be disciplined, especially under the leadership of Chairman Schiff and previous chairs known to be very disciplined. Matter of fact, we have a very talented staff of attorneys and former members of the Intelligence Community. And so those of us who serve as representatives, we take our jobs very seriously. We take our oath very seriously.
And so what we want to do is make sure that the identity of the whistleblower is protected and we want to get to the bottom of this. The call is Exhibit A, the complaint is Exhibit B, if you will, and we need a fuller picture of what happened and what is happening. And so those who are concerned Republican, Democrats, urge your representative to do the right thing and put pressure on the Trump administration to cooperate.
HARLOW: So here is one of the few remaining Democrats in the House who is not there yet on impeachment, Democratic Congressman Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey. He's one of the 12 left who doesn't support impeachment at the time. He explained why over the weekend, listen to this.
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REP. JEFF VAN DREW (D-NJ): The odds are very high, that it's not going to bear any fruit. The odds are very high that this president will continue to be the president. The people of the United States of America are going to have an election now in a year they can go ahead in the ballot box and impeach if they desire to do so.
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HARLOW: Congressman Carson, do you see any merit to that argument?
CARSON: Well, I can't speak to his district, the culture of his district, his own personal philosophical views. I think that he's probably sensitive to one point that I can appreciate, and that is we still have work to do. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. The Trump administration has yet to deal with a comprehensive infrastructure bill that deals with the over 10,000 roads and bridges that have to be repaid and reconstructed.
He has yet to address our educational walls in a very serious manner. He's yet to address our National Security concerns in a serious manner that doesn't demonize Muslims and doesn't demonize immigrants and Latinos. And so there's much more work to do, but the work at hand calls for us on the House Intelligence Committee to protect the whistleblower and get to the bottom of this very serious allegation against the President.
HARLOW: So let's end on the whistleblower because your colleague, the Chair of your Committee, Adam Schiff said he is hopeful the whistleblower will testify before you pretty soon. The President said today he's trying to figure out who the whistleblower is. The whistleblower's attorney has responded saying that those attacks and what has been said are putting their client in danger. What's your read?
[19:10:01]
CARSON: Well, we're going to do whatever we can to make sure that the identity of the whistleblower is protected. We're working with DNI Director, Maguire, to make sure the attorneys get the proper clearances and so that justice is served.
I would hope that this president does not act in a way that is reminiscent of a mob figure. And if he sees himself as such, he will be dealt with as such.
HARLOW: What does that mean?
CARSON: It means that if he wants to be a gangster, then we're going to have to uphold the law and treat him like a gangster. He's already shown that he's a tyrant.
HARLOW: Well, what does that mean you would actually do?
CARSON: He's already shown - we're doing what we're doing, investigating, issuing more subpoenas, making sure that he doesn't act like a gangster and use the seat of the presidency to continue to intimidate foreign leaders, to blackmail foreign leaders as it relates to the aid that they get from the U.S. To continually pollute all of the agencies and create this very toxic work environment where people are afraid to come forth with whistleblowing complaints, and members of the cabinet administration as well are afraid to even challenge the President. That's a mob mentality and those are certainly traits of a tyrant.
HARLOW: Congressman Andre Carson, we appreciate you coming on tonight. Thank you so much.
CARSON: What a pleasure, thank you.
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