CNN "Erin Burnett Out Front" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Denny Heck"

Interview

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BURNETT: Certainly so and overwhelmingly so. Pamela, thank you very much. And I want to go now to Democratic Congressman Denny Heck. He's on the House Intelligence Committee and, of course, questioned the Acting Director of National Intelligence, Joseph McGuire, today. Congressman, what was your impression of him? Were you satisfied with his testimony and his answers?

REP. DENNY HECK (D-WA): I thought he torturously contorted himself to be able to rationalize the position he's taken, Erin. Now, the fact of the matter is when he was asked the question is it OK, not for this president, but for any president to pressure the leader of a foreign country to interfere in our election, he finally after two or three iterations coughed up that no, it's not OK for that to happen.

BURNETT: So I want to play that exchange, Congressman, because it was an important one which you had with him. Here it is.

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HECK: Is it OK for a president to pressure any president, to pressure a foreign government for help to win an election?

MAGUIRE: It is unwarranted. It is unwelcome. It is bad for the nation to have outside interference, any foreign power ...

HECK: Thank you. And by extension, it would be equally unacceptable to extort that assistance as well.

MAGUIRE: I mean, all I know is that I have the transcripts as you have. I have the whistleblower complaint as you have. And --

HECK: I wasn't referring to the whistleblower complaint, but if any president were to do this, and I accept your answer. I think it's beyond unacceptable, Director.

MAGUIRE: Yes, sir.

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BURNETT: And I should note, Congressman, when he did finally say it is unwarranted, it is unwelcome, it is bad for the nation, and talk about foreign interference, that was after you had pushed him several times. He did eventually give you a very firm, clear answer. Did you feel that at the end of the day, that he gave you real answers, that he said what he believed that he was honest?

HECK: I think he's in a lot of pain tonight, actually. I think he's in a lot of pain throughout all of this episode. This is somebody who had a distinguished nearly 40-year career as a Seal and as a retired Admiral of the United States Navy and I think he knows better, frankly, and I think he's in a lot of pain.

BURNETT: According to the complaint, which obviously discussed today at length, people in the White House appeared to try to cover up the President's conversation with Zelensky. We just we just heard the crucial parts of that that they were worried about it, they knew it was a problem, they took it off the system where it could be seen. They put it on another system. Do you consider that a crime?

HECK: I consider it a crime to solicit a foreign country's interference in our election and I think the whistleblower complaint indicated that that was what was happening and the official record of the telephone conversation fairly confirms it. So I do think crime has been committed.

[19:10:04]

I'm not familiar enough with the laws with respect to how things are to be stored to suggest whether or not or to conclude whether or not actually transferring it in a highly unprecedented way to another computer ...

BURNETT: Right, whether those were crimes. So I guess my other question is, obviously, this alleges multiple officials knew about it, multiple people were involved in this transfer, are you going to be able to determine even if you're able to question the whistleblower who those people are to call them as witnesses, because that's going to be crucial. Are you confident you're going to get their names and bring them in?

HECK: Well, for the time being I think the next step, Erin, is that we be able to procure the appearance of the whistleblower and those conversations are underway between the whistleblower's attorneys and our staff. And I guess I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic that we're going to be able to do that, but it is not yet confirmed. The work is underway.

BURNETT: All right. Well cautiously optimistic, I guess we'll take that as good as it can be right now. I want to read one other thing for you, Congressman, because this is very important. Again, "According to White House officials I spoke with," this is the whistleblower, "this was 'not the first time'," that's in quotes, "under this Administration that a Presidential transcript was placed into this codeword-level system solely for the purpose of protecting politically sensitive-rather than national security sensitive- information." So we know that that would mean that there are other times that

transcripts were put there, other times it would appear. So are you trying to get those? Do you have any idea how many? What they're involve with? Are you going to get them?

HECK: It would be nice to get them and I don't know if we'll get them, but I think the important thing is for us to put this in the broader context. This is not an isolated incident. People should look at just the telephone conversation itself is the alpha and the omega of this affair, because of course it started with drawing and the sacking of the U.S. ambassador, two, the Ukraine continued with the tasking of private citizen, Rudy Giuliani, to go over there and encouraging the manufacturing of dirt on the President's political opponents and it continued with the telephone conversation with the withholding of the aid until such time as somebody had agreed to play ball and a favor was exchange for another favor almost exactly those words.

So this has to be placed in the broader context. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there was evidence of this above and beyond what we just heard about today.

BURNETT: All right. Well, certainly it seems that could end up being crucial especially if you all are to get any Republican support. I appreciate your time, Congressman Heck.

HECK: You're welcome, Erin.

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