CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Steve Cohen"

Interview

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BLITZER: Shimon Prokupecz, I want you to stand by as well. In the meantime, I want to get more on all of these dramatic developments. Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee is joining us. He's a key member of the House Judiciary Committee.

Congressman thanks so much for joining us. Let me get your immediate reaction to the breaking news. A federal judge had just ordered the Justice Department to turn over the redacted grand jury material from the Mueller report. How significant is this?

REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): Very significant. The entire Judiciary Committee in the House, the Democratic side is ecstatic about it. We've gone to court to litigate. We've been obfuscated by the Justice Department. They have stonewalled. They have obstructed our investigation, obstructed Congress and we're happy the Justice Judge Howell required them to disclose the material.

This is a proper impeachment inquiry. It is not for the administration or the Justice Department to argue about. It is within the purview of the House and we are a full-fledged impeachment inquiry and we have a right to that grand jury material and the American people need for it to come forth so that we can do our work and we're going to get that material even though they may appeal it, we will get it.

BLITZER: What do you expect to learn from that material?

COHEN: Well, I think we're going to find more likely obstruction of justice. Mr. Mueller had in this report 10 instances of obstruction of justice which most people feel that five of the cases, all of the elements were groundly -- soundly laid out and some people think as many as seven. But that is conduct that is impeachable. We think we'll find other material.

We know that Bill Barr lied and misled the American public when he came out and wouldn't release the report. But said it was no collusion and no obstruction. Well, Mueller cleared the president. Well Mueller didn't clear the president. He specifically said, I do not exonerate him. And he said there were contacts that the administration had or the campaign had with Russia and that they knew about Russia's involvement and they welcomed it.

He couldn't prove conspiracy. Collusion wasn't even the proper term. But they did that and then 30 days later they finally released it but still they had a press conference and put the same line out three hours before they released it, they poisoned the air. And I'm sure there are things in the grand jury materials they don't want us to see because they will likely lead to more information that will show illegal conduct and in obstructing the investigation that Mr. Mueller was engaged in. BLITZER: As you know, Congressman, the Trump administration has argued that this entire impeachment inquiry is illegitimate because there hasn't been a formal vote on the House floor. So what is this judge's ruling today say about the House effort?

COHEN: It says the House effort is entirely appropriate and right. It is within Article 1 that Congress is given the power of impeachment and Congress has the right and the -- to set up the rules in the way that they handle the impeachment. In fact the rules that we're basically going under particularly in -- with the investigation in Ukraine are the rules that were set up by John Boehner when he was the House speaker. So there is no difference in a partisan way. Republicans are allowed and have participated to ask questions and participate in a full manner in the Intel -- in the other two committee investigations. And the court confirmed what the House is doing with Nancy Pelosi is doing is proper and appropriate and to make it further proper and appropriate we need to get all of the materials that are available to make a judgment and that includes the grand jury materials that Bill Barr doesn't want anybody in the American public, including Congress people to see.

BLITZER: As you know, the House speaker still wants the impeachment inquiry narrow in scope focused solely on the Ukraine issue. Is that still a viable path considering all of the new information potentially you're about to get from this grand jury material?

COHEN: Well, there may be more material that comes forth and there might be a change of circumstances. Speaker Pelosi has been careful to go forward when she felt the public was with her and the facts would dictate. And she hasn't made a decision or what she'll do or what she'll recommend of what the House will do.

[17:15:04]

But I think in the Ukraine matter the public supports it and the facts are there that the president abused his power trying to get a foreign government to interfere in our elections and offered them military aid or refuse them military aid that Congress had authorized and that he's committed an impeachable offense. The American public sees that. I think 55 percent in the polls, getting close to Nixon levels that were 62 percent or 63 percent after John Dean's testimony in the Rose Mary Woods tape episode came out and the release of the tapes.

Once we have public hearings, we'll probably get to 62 percent or 63 percent and Trump knows it. But if we have this material that comes out from the grand jury, if there is evidence there that is strong evidence that shows obstruction of justice or other crimes, Speaker Pelosi might have to change her perspective because the public will then I think come to believe that we should impeach on those issues and the facts will be more evident. The facts weren't evident enough for her to move forward but the grand jury testimony which I'm sure has material -- that is what you take to get the indictment. That's the meat and potatoes. When did you get the meat and potatoes and we've already got and we've seen lots of guilty pleas, lots of convictions with Mueller and lots of indictments, you'll see more evidence and you'll see the material that will convince the American public that this needs to go forward.

BLITZER: Congressman Steve Cohen thanks so much for joining us.

COHEN: Let's go Nats.

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