PBS "News Hours" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chris Murphy
Interview
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Judy Woodruff:
And now to the U.S. lawmaker who has been visiting Ukraine for the past six years, and earlier this month met there with its new president, Zelensky.
I spoke earlier today with Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, a Democrat, who is on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Senator Murphy, thank you very much for joining us.
Given your longtime knowledge, familiarity with Ukraine, what is your reaction to this memo we are now seeing of the conversation between President Trump and the president of Ukraine in July?
Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn.:
It's absolutely devastating.
Within moments of Zelensky asking the president for more help for increased weaponry to fight Russia, the president asks Zelensky to investigate one of the president's political opponents, Joe Biden, and makes some vague suggestion that President -- that Vice President Biden was bragging about getting a prosecutor -- or stopping a prosecution in Ukraine, which is fundamentally not true.
There's no way to come away from that phone call without the impression that a priority of the president's is to take part in his political campaign for reelection in the United States.
And, of course, this phone call doesn't stand on its own. Rudy Giuliani's name is brought up several times. And we know that Giuliani and perhaps others were repeatedly trying to get the Ukrainians to open up these investigations to politically destroy one of the president's rivals.
I don't think we have ever seen anything like it. You are not allowed to trade away the credibility of the United States in order to score political points or destroy your political rivals.
And I think it underscores the need for the inquiry the House began yesterday.
Judy Woodruff:
Senator, as you know, though, the White House is saying this is just an effort, an open effort by President Trump to encourage the Ukrainians to clean up corruption in their -- in their government.
Sen. Chris Murphy:
Well, that would be made more credible if the president had mentioned any other corruption investigation over the course of that call.
There are, you know, likely dozens of different corruption matters that the president could have pressed the Ukrainians on, if his actual concern was cleaning up corruption in Ukraine. He only mentioned one, and it happened to be requesting an investigation, which is not presently happening, against his likely 2020 campaign opponent.
Second, if he was really interested in corruption, he would have told Zelensky to talk to the embassy. He didn't. He told Zelensky to talk to Rudy Giuliani, who is the president's political fixer, who is a representative of the president's campaign, who is not in charge of rooting out anti-corruption in Ukraine.
That's the duty of the U.S. Embassy. So the president gave away his priority in the context of this call. He was trying to enlist Zelensky in his political operation.
Judy Woodruff:
Well, if you read the memo, it comes across as if President Zelensky is agreeing to do what President Trump asked him to do.
He sounds like he's agreeing to work with Rudy Giuliani and to work with the attorney general, Barr.
What do you make of that? You -- you have met with President Zelensky.
Sen. Chris Murphy:
I have met with President Zelensky, and I raised this general issue with him. At the time, I didn't know that the president himself had made these demands of Zelensky. I did know at the time that Giuliani had made certain demands.
The president, in my meeting with him, President Zelensky, said he had no interest in getting involved in a U.S. election. I think you can perhaps understand, a novice politician, a new president who has never done this before is attempting to, you know, set a good relationship with a U.S. president, who is clearly making requests that are out of bounds.
And so, yes, you read that transcript, and it looks as if Zelensky has an interest in doing business with Trump. It's possible he was trying to get out of that phone call without a confrontation.
We don't have any evidence that Zelensky actually went and ordered that prosecution. In fact, it appears that he didn't, that the new prosecutor that he brought in has made a decision that there's no merit to pursuing this.
Judy Woodruff:
Right.
Senator, we know that you and other Democrats have been calling on the whistle-blower in this case, others in the intelligence community to step forward to testify before Congress.
We now know that the acting director of national intelligence is going to testify tomorrow morning before the House Intelligence Committee. What would you want to know from him?
Sen. Chris Murphy:
Well, I mean, I'm concerned that this information is only going to flow to the members of the Intelligence Committee. I have got to go back and check the statute. But I just saw the revelation that the whistle-blower complaint will be presented to the Intelligence Committee.
Remember, that's only a hand full of senators. And, ultimately, if this is the subject of an impeachment inquiry, then everyone who is going to vote on impeachment either in the House or the Senate needs to see this whistle-blower complaint.
So that's the first threshold we need to cross. But then, of course, on substance, I don't know anything that's in this complaint. So it may have to do with Ukraine. It may have to do with Russia. That's why all of us need to see this as soon as possible, not just the Intelligence Committee.
Judy Woodruff:
Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, who is on the Foreign Relations Committee, thank you, Senator.
Sen. Chris Murphy:
Thanks.
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