CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Dick Durbin"

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BALDWIN: "We would have to look."

There you have it, President Trump really put on the spot and not able to name a single other instance where he has demanded corruption investigations into anyone other than his 2020 rivals, but still insisting that an anti-corruption crusade was the main motivation in his call with the Ukrainian president back in July.

Democratic Senator Dick Durbin is here with me now.

A pleasure to have you here, Senator.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You just heard the president.

I mean, your reaction to saying he's simply fighting corruption?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you, he has had three strikes now.

And we kind of ignored the first one when he said, "Russia, if you're listening," go after Hillary's e-mails. BALDWIN: Yes.

[15:25:00]

DURBIN: Then came the one that he released to the American people, the declassified telephone conversation with President Zelensky.

BALDWIN: Yes.

DURBIN: Let me ask you a favor, and goes into Biden information.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: And now, China, if you're listening.

DURBIN: Then he stands on the front porch of the White House and says, China, come get the Bidens.

You think to yourself, has he read the -- would it make any difference, but has he read the basic law which says it is illegal for any person to solicit, accept or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election?

You don't have to be a law professor to understand that that is very clear. And he is ignoring it.

BALDWIN: Yes.

DURBIN: He's breaching his oath of office, endangering national security, and making a mockery of basic law.

BALDWIN: As we were discussing in commercial break, in broad daylight.

If the House votes to impeach, all eyes will be on the Senate. You need two-thirds. You need 67 senators for there to have a trial.

Are there Republican senators who you think will stand up and speak up against this president? And, if so, who?

DURBIN: I can count them on one hand, and have some fingers left over.

BALDWIN: Who?

DURBIN: Mitt Romney has just been -- he's picked a place in history here.

And I say to my fellow Republicans and friends -- and I have many of them -- for goodness' sakes, reflect on history. Which side of the ledger will you be on in terms of really saying what is obvious about this president's conduct?

There will come a moment. There will be the end of Trump, and they will be many who claim, oh, I was after him all along.

Well, now's the moment for many of them. Mitt Romney has led in terms of the statements that are being made.

BALDWIN: Who else, Senator?

DURBIN: The senator from Alaska, senator from Maine...

BALDWIN: Yes.

DURBIN: ... they have in various times spoken out. I'm glad they have. Senator Sasse of Nebraska made a statement a week ago -- or so ago.

But that's it. That is it. I mean, when you look at it, you think, I know there are people of real integrity and character on the other side who are quiet, silent, maybe even afraid.

BALDWIN: What are they really thinking? What are they -- what are the whispers on Capitol Hill that they're just not saying out loud?

DURBIN: Until he's gone, he can take them out in a primary.

And I think they're holding back. If they spoke up now, for the country first, but for their own party, it would be the right thing for this country.

BALDWIN: In 2016, you signed a bipartisan letter praising then Vice President Joe Biden for his efforts to end corruption in Ukraine. It was also signed by your colleague Senator Ron Johnson, who is now saying nothing, nothing improper about what the president did yesterday on the lawn of the White House to investigate the Bidens.

What has changed between just a short few years ago and now?

DURBIN: I can't explain it, other than to say, when that letter was signed by three Democrats, three Republicans in support of Ukraine in wanting to end real corruption, we thought the prosecutor who was there was not doing his job.

And that's why we joined together in this bipartisan letter and released it to the public. This was no secret communication, and never meant to be.

And now even Ron Johnson from Wisconsin, when he returned from Kiev -- he was there over the August recess -- he came up to me on the floor and he said, we have got to get this money released. They're waiting for this money to defend themselves against the Russian invasion by Vladimir Putin.

BALDWIN: Four hundred million.

DURBIN: And I put the amendment in the Appropriations Committee the night before the White House released it. They saw this amendment coming, and they were probably going to lose it.

But the sentiment -- I really believe my colleagues need to step back and look at this in just the most direct and simple terms. What the president has done is in violation of this statute. He has conceded that fact with this declassified telephone conversation.

BALDWIN: Yes.

DURBIN: Every American can read it.

BALDWIN: At this point, part of the reason perhaps Trump keeps doing it is that he's getting away with it. Do you think Trump will continue to have these conversations with foreign leaders, if he feels that there are no consequences?

DURBIN: I do.

We know there is some secret place now in the files.

BALDWIN: The vault.

DURBIN: The vault in the White House. And we don't know what's in there.

My guess is similar conversations have taken place with other world leaders. And the people around the president thought, oh, my goodness, if this ever gets to the public, we're fixed. We're finished.

And I don't know what's in there. I hope the day comes when America can see it.

BALDWIN: How about the quid pro quo with Ukraine? You were talking about the $400 million in military aid the U.S. gives to Ukraine.

And the next question then is about China, right? So we know that there have been these conversations with President Xi from back in June. We know that the U.S. is embroiled in this trade war that affects every single American.

Do you think this is all connected with regard to investigating the Bidens?

DURBIN: Hard to say.

Also remember, when it came to Ukraine, it turns out the president was anxious, Zelensky was anxious to be invited to Washington.

BALDWIN: To the White House.

DURBIN: To the White House. It must be -- I'm sure it is a very important honor to have the president of the United States welcome this new president personally.

But when it comes to the China situation, it is such a complex situation at this moment. This trade war the president has initiated, the tariff battle, is striking my state, the farmers first, but businesses as well, very hard.

And consumers are paying higher prices, and may not have noticed it, but it's happening.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source