CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: "Interview with Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi"
Interview
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
We began last night's program noting the day's historic significance. Well, today is no different because we now have a rough transcript, not a verbatim transcript, provided by the White House of the president of the United States asking a foreign leader to investigate a U.S. political rival, Joe Biden. As far as we know, that has never happened in the history of the United States.
Also this afternoon, members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees got their first look at the whistle-blower complaint connected with the call. Then, late today, reaction from the president.
Now, we're going to talk about all of it in this hour as well as in a special report with "THE LEAD's" Jake Tapper at 11:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
But before we get into all the reaction, we want to focus on the call itself because it is so significant. The key points from July 25th, which is the rough transcript, itself warns, again it's not verbatim.
The president saying, I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Then after a brief digression, the president continues, quote, the United States has been very, very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening. They're not good. But United States has been very good to Ukraine.
Then the president of Ukraine, Zelensky, replies, yes, you are absolutely right. Not only 100 percent, but actually 1,000 percent.
Now, bear in mind that when this conversation is taking place, President Trump had already delayed $391 million in aid to Ukraine, $250 million of that was in military assistance, aid that was approved by Congress already was being held up by the president. So, that's what's dangling or hanging over President Zelensky's head as he says and I'm quoting again, I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to cooperate -- we are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps, specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins, which are anti-tank missiles, from the United States for defense purposes.
President Trump then replies, I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine. They say CrowdStrike, he later adds, I would like to have the attorney general call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it.
Now, CrowdStrike is the cyber security firm the DNC called in when its servers were hacked during the 2016 campaign. It's also at the center of a conspiracy theory that seems to deflect blame from Russia for the hacking.
Then the president asked for more help. The other thing, President Trump says, there's a lot of talk of Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution. A lot of people want to find out about that. So, whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great.
Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution. So, if you can look into it, it sounds horrible to me.
And, finally, President Trump says, I'll have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I'm going to have Attorney General Barr call and we'll get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out.
That is the heart of it. That's also all the president talked about beyond exchanging pleasantries with the president of Ukraine. There was no talk about current corruption in Ukraine, no talk of specific, ongoing concerns the president claims to have about corruption. No information the president would have gotten from his intelligence services about current, ongoing corruption in Ukraine. Just Biden.
As we said at the top, a short time after the transcript of it came out, members of the two congressional intelligence committees got a look at the whistle-blower complaint.
Joining us now is Democratic member of the committee, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi.
Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Obviously, I know there's a lot you cannot say at this point. What you read is a classified document.
What can you say about the whistleblower's complaint that you read?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Sure. Thanks for having me on.
First of all, I think that most of it should be declassified tonight and it should be shared with the American public. I think transparency is absolutely essential here.
But what I can say about the complaint is that it's thorough, it's careful, it's credible, it's consistent and it raises a lot more questions than it answers, but it's obvious why the inspector general who, by the way, was appointed by the Trump administration found it to be both urgent and credible enough to pass along to the DNI.
COOPER: Can you say how much more there is in the original whistleblower complaint beyond what was laid out in the rough transcript that was released today? I mean, was it solely based on that conversation?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I can't get into the specifics of that particular complaint, but what I can say, Anderson, is that it talks about a lot more witnesses.
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It talks about more documents. It talks about more materials that have to be pursued to get to the bottom of what exactly transpired with regard to this national security situation.
COOPER: Your colleague on the intelligence committee, Eric Swalwell, he was on CNN earlier saying that in the complaint, the whistle-blower evokes other witnesses to disturbing contact that the whistle-blower -- he or she, conduct -- disturbing conduct, I should say, that the whistle-blower was alarmed by the number of people who knew what was going on and hadn't said anything.
Can you say approximately how many other people did know what was going on?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: It was a bunch. I'm sorry for being so imprecise.
COOPER: No, I understand.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: But I think that the main point, though, which I do want to hammer home is that, there are other witnesses here who need to be talked to and who need to quite frankly be interviewed or brought before our committee to understand the full extent of the misconduct here.
I just want to say one other thing, which is that this whistle-blower needs to be commended. He's courageous in coming forward and for that matter, the inspector general is also to be commended for his professionalism.
You know, there's no incentive for him to shade his analysis in favor of forwarding this whistle-blower complaint. If anything, telling the truth on the inspector general's part puts his career in jeopardy as well.
COOPER: I'm not asking obviously who this whistle-blower is or what their position is. Do you know after reading this what position -- maybe you probably don't know their name, but do you know what position they hold? Or how they would have gotten this information?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: No. No. And the inspector general actually invokes a certain provision of the law which allows him to mask the identity of the whistle-blower. COOPER: Because I ask that question because the president today had
started to -- I mean, started doing it yesterday but today started basically impugning the whistle-blower, calling him -- sort of so- called whistle-blower saying that, you know, basically implying that they are Democratic operative or just -- tangential to this entire event. Is there anything that raises in your mind about the motivation of this whistle-blower?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: No. Actually, inspector general does a very good job of actually -- we got to see the classified determination or analysis that the inspector general performed on the whistle-blower's complaint and he himself made an independent judgment that it was both credible and urgent. And as you know, the inspector general doesn't have a liberal or Democratic bias.
COOPER: So, just -- finally, the -- what you just said about the inspector general had looked into this whistle-blower and the complaint and judged it --
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes.
COOPER: -- worthy of moving forward. Does what the inspector general has already done on assessing this complaint and the names that the whistle-blower has said are eye witnesses or, you know, have some information and should be talked to, is that essentially providing you roadmaps forward? I mean, specific people to talk to to call in?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think it's fair to say that he's definitely giving us some indications of further investigation that needs to be done, so I think that both the inspector general and the whistle-blower point us to other avenues for inquiry for sure.
COOPER: Congressman, I appreciate your time. By the way, is it --
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes, sir.
COOPER: You said you think this should be declassified?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Absolutely.
COOPER: You're saying that could be easily done, there's just some things to rule (ph) --
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I think, look, there's certain appendices or certain materials that are classified in nature and sensitive that should probably be withheld, however, the vast majority of the material should be declassified immediately. And the fact that the White House has not done so just begs the question why. Why do they not want us to see the full -- why do they not want the American people to see the full whistle-blower complaint? Why do they not want the press to see the full whistle-blower complaint at this point?
COOPER: And just finally, the president has talked about this whistle-blower. To your knowledge, would it be inappropriate if the president had been told the identity of this whistle-blower? KRISHNAMOORTHI: I personally think so. I think that quite frankly
given all that we know about how certain witnesses have been treated in different investigations, I think it's best for this whistleblower's identity to be shrouded at this point.
I just want to say one last thing, Anderson, which is that, you know, this is a national security issue.
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I hope that folks can come at this with an objective point of view. I was heartened in the last hearing that we had, which is closed door, that the Republicans on my committee seem to show an unusual amount of engagement with the inspector general. I think they had no choice because he was so credible.
I hope they can display the same viewpoint coming into tomorrow's hearing and going forward because it's national security. We cannot afford to let this get bogged down in partisan politics.
COOPER: Yes. Congressman, appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes, sir. Thank you.
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