msnbc "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: "Giuliani subpoenaed for documents."
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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. That was, of course, Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell telling CNBC today that, according to Senate rules, he`d have to move forward on impeachment if the House impeaches President Trump. He is referring to the Senate rule which states that, upon such articles being presented to the Senate, the Senate shall proceed to the consideration of such articles. But as "The Washington Post"`s Philip Bump points out, Senator McConnell added an important caveat on the impeachment process, that how long you`re on it is a whole different matter, whatever that means. Anyway, Bump notes that it is easy to imagine McConnell moving quickly to a vote. I`m joined right now by Minnesota Senator -- well, Democratic Senator and presidential candidate, of course, Amy Klobuchar, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee and would be a juror on the impeachment trial. Thank you so much, Senator.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Chris.
MATTHEWS: Let`s just pick on where Mitch McConnell led off. What is the latitude in the rules if the House -- it looks like the House is going to get a majority. I`m just speculating. I think they will, because of so many Democrats who have now come out for this process and the way it`s moving. If it comes to the Senate, do you see any wiggle room on the part of Mitch, how he handles it?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, you heard that wiggle room right there, Chris. I`m actually the ranking on the Rules Committee. And so I listened very carefully when he said -- made that caveat about how long we stay on it, which is interesting, because way back in the spring, he actually used the word trial. Now, that`s a big difference. If we actually have a trial, that is one thing, which is what we should do. And I actually took part in the last impeachment case in the Senate, which was a federal judge in Louisiana. And we had a trial that lasted over a week. We brought the evidence to the Senate. There were 15 of us, and we actually had a trial. The prosecutor, by the way, from over in the House was Adam Schiff.
MATTHEWS: Wow.
KLOBUCHAR: We ended up -- yes. And we ended up impeaching the judge. And so the point of the story is that I`m concerned that he wouldn`t allow that full trial to go forward. Now, what will make a difference here. And that is what Speaker Pelosi has been talking about, to keep this focused, as Donna just noticed -- noted, keep this focus on what happened here. And that is that a president called a foreign leader and asked him, get dirt on one of his political opponents. And there`s new reports today that, actually, the same thing may have happened with the Australian prime minister. And there may be recordings or reports from that call. And so I see this as a global Watergate, where this is a president that was, as you said, desperate. He`s trying to get dirt. And then, when they get caught, there`s a cover-up. And they didn`t have file cabinets anymore, like they did in Watergate, but now they`re using this super secret server and putting the calls over there, so they think no one`s going to see them. Well, they did. And they learned about it because of the whistle-blower. So we have to keep this focused on the facts. And I believe that, if more witnesses come forward, and there are people that worked in that White House that despise this president because of his lack of patriotism, and if they start coming forward with corroborating evidence, that will make all the difference. That will determine the case, how strong it is, what Mitch McConnell will do. And public opinion will matter, as Speaker Pelosi has rightfully noted. And then our Republican colleagues are really on the hot seat. They have got to decide if they`re going to put their country first or partisanship first. They talk a good game on security. Well, let`s see it happen.
MATTHEWS: Well, Senator, you mentioned that NBC News has confirmed that President Trump sought help from the Australian prime minister to investigate the origins of former special counsel Robert Mueller`s Russia investigation. That`s according to a Justice Department official, who says Attorney General Barr asked Trump to make the call to seek Australia`s help. And the call was first reported by "The New York Times." Additionally, "The Washington Post" now reports late tonight that Barr has held private meetings overseas with foreign intelligence officials seeking their help in a Justice Department inquiry that President Trump hopes will discredit U.S. intelligence agencies` examination of Russian interference in the 2016 -- this -- somebody said the other day it`s a white whale. It`s like Captain Ahab. He`s obsessed, this president, with trying to somehow erase the record of Russian interference and the Russian role in helping him become president. It`s like he`s taken the State Department. Every foreign leader that gets on the phone with him or Pompeo now gets grilled into saying, come on, we need some help with dirt collection, because we got to go back and erase history that we had some -- the Russians had something to do with putting our guy in there. Your thoughts?
KLOBUCHAR: And this actually goes back to meeting in a bar in London, where Papadopoulos, remember that name
MATTHEWS: Sure.
KLOBUCHAR: met with an Australian diplomat, and the Australian diplomat was concerned enough that he reported this up the line that Papadopoulos, on behalf of the Trump campaign, was looking for dirt on Secretary Clinton. And so that is his obsession, where it came from. But I think we have got to go back from that Mueller investigation, because our focus right now, again, is what he is doing now, and not everything from the past, Chris, as much -- as alluring it is to collect all these dots. And I`m sure we can do that at some point, but is on the actions, the actions that are in the document.
MATTHEWS: I`m with you.
KLOBUCHAR: This idea that he betrayed his country and put his, as usual, business, personal and partisan interests first. And we have to keep it that simple. Yes, you get the corroborating evidence. And my guess is, it may involve calls to other leaders in foreign countries. But you have got to keep it on that, because it`s a current-focused investigation. And I think that makes a difference. For any of my colleagues -- and Senator -- former Senator Flake made that point. It`s a clarion call to them, because this is not something that was a past election. This is something that is happening right now. And if they want a touchstone for themselves, how about James Madison, Constitutional Convention? When they were talking about the articles of impeachment, he argued for them at the convention, with the argument that a president might, in his words, betray the trust of our country to a foreign power. This is exactly what they were worried about. And this is exactly what is happening.
MATTHEWS: Quick question. If you get the impeachment from the House by Thanksgiving, can you finish the matter before the end of the year?
KLOBUCHAR: I think we can. I think it is very important that we move forward. And I will note, as someone who`s running for president, that we can do two things at once. We can focus on making sure that we have a rule of law in place and that we don`t have a president that`s flaunting it and is not held to the highest standards, and at the same time push for an optimistic economic agenda for this country, because this president isn`t doing it. He`s spending his morning, instead of working on the cost of prescription drugs or helping build infrastructure, or working on the disaster going on with our farmers in the Midwest, including Iowa, because of his oil waivers and his trade war. Instead of working on that, he`s out tweeting about presidential harassment in all caps and spending his time doing these crazy tweets all morning. This is not what you want in a leader.
MATTHEWS: Senator, you don`t have to tell me that you could do more than 10 things at the same time. You are so gung-ho, you`re not worn out by this campaign. You`re energized by it. Thank you so much. Amy Klobuchar --
KLOBUCHAR: It is the last day of the quarter, Chris. Important day. So thank you very much.
MATTHEWS: Oh, that has to do with running for president -- yes, I know. Thank you very much, Senator Amy Klobuchar --
KLOBUCHAR: Goodbye. Thank you.
MATTHEWS: -- of Minnesota, candidate for president.
KLOBUCHAR: Still ahead tonight on HARDBALL, new polling, interesting new polling just shows a big shift in the public`s view of impeachment. Guess what? They`re for it. The bus has left the station, Mr. President. That`s next on HARDBALL.
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