MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show - Transcript: "Several USDA workers quit. "

Interview

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MADDOW: T-minus five days until special counsel Robert Mueller testifies before Congress starting Wednesday morning. He`ll spend three hours in open testimony before judiciary and then two hours of open testimony before intel. Last month, when it was first announced he`d testify, at that point, some of Mueller`s lieutenants, his staffers, prosecutors who worked with him, they were also expected to testify after Mueller behind closed doors, in private transcribed interviews. We on this show had confirmation live on the air, first from the Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff and then from the Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler that those lieutenant interviews were at least planned. Since then, that plan seems to have fallen apart a little bit. NBC News is now reporting that those interviews are definitely not a sure thing any longer. Quote: There are still ongoing discussions with the House Intelligence Committee and the Department of Justice to allow some of Muller`s deputies to appear in closed classified session so they can discuss information that cannot be revealed publicly, like portions of the redacted report or underlying evidence. One Democratic staff are telling NBC News, quote, this just seems to be another effort by the attorney general to limit the amount of information coming out of the special counsels office in order to protect the president. So even with testimony scheduled, there`s still a ton of drama. Joining us now is somebody who`s going to be one of the people questioning Mueller five days from now, whether or not the deputies are there, Congressman Joe Neguse is a member of the House Judiciary Committee. Sir, thanks for being. It`s nice to have you here in person.

REP. JOE NEGUSE (D-CO): Thanks for having me, Rachel.

MADDOW: Let me ask you about that deputies issue. Is that settled? As far as we can tell, it was on and then it was reportedly off, and now, it`s influx.

NEGUSE: So, I don`t know the answer to that question.

MADDOW: Yes.

NEGUSE: I`m not -- I`m not sure. There are a lot of moving parts. I would differ, of course, to the chairman of our committee, who I think is doing tremendous job, the negotiations are ongoing. And so, I think from my vantage point and I think the vantage point of the American people, the focus ought to be on the special counsel himself.

MADDOW: Do you think it would be valuable to hear from the staffers, to hear from the prosecutors or the FBI agents?

NEGUSE: Sure. I mean, I think -- I think it`s important, you know, if anything this last two months has showed that we are in need of the ability to really hear from the fact witnesses themselves. So, from my vantage point, questioning the special counsel next week will be a very important milestone. It`ll be an opportunity for the American public to finally hear from the special counsel directly about the significant evidence of criminality that he uncovered, and the conclusions that he reached a result thereof. But it`s just the beginning, not the end. I mean, we also need to hear from the fact witnesses, from Mr. McGahn, from Ms. Donaldson, from many others. As you know, you`ve had the chairman on your program many times, we just recently authorized the chairman to issue a number of subpoenas for additional fact witnesses, many of whom never worked for the administration and we believe can make no colorable or cogent argument this, you know, supposed privileges that they`ve continually tried to invoke, which have no legal basis but nonetheless these witnesses can`t even assert that. So we expected them to appear as well.

MADDOW: The legal wrangling over those fact witnesses, it`s frustrating to a lot of observers and people who serve won`t still want this story to be -- further unravel before the American people just because it is taking a long time, and you and the chairman both have expressed that you`re on strong legal footing, that they`re asserting privileges that don`t exist, that ultimately you win. Is the idea that, yes, this is taking a long time, but ultimately after we went in court, the dam will break and we`ll get all of them all at once? Or is every single one of these fact witnesses going to take months or years to spool out in which case, we`re all going to be in an old folks home by the time we get to the end of the first volume of the report?

NEGUSE: I certainly hope it`s the former --

MADDOW: Yes.

NEGUSE: -- and not the latter, and I think that`s probably the case. I mean I think we are on very strong legal footing. I think these witnesses ultimately will be compelled to testify and appear before the Judiciary Committee, and as I said next week`s hearing ought to be where the focus is. It`s a very important first step. I will also say, part of the challenge has been the fog of confusion that was created by this administration`s wholesale obstruction of Congress. As you know, you`ve documented it on your program many at times, the administration constantly rebuffing Congress, refusing to obey congressional subpoenas that were duly issued, has created a fog of confusion around the special counsel`s findings, and I think that`s why the hearing next week is so important, so that the public can finally understand what he concluded.

MADDOW: Have you guys been doing like moot court, like dry run, practice sessions, where somebody pretends to be Robert Mueller and you all figure out how to get to the bottom things like have you been doing that kind of practice sessions?

NEGUSE: We have been preparing. I won`t reveal the internal deliberations of the committee and the activities. I will just -- I`ll say this, I mean is --

MADDOW: Just tell me who`s playing Robert Mueller. Just tell me if you got de Niro.

NEGUSE: We`ll do that after next Wednesday.

MADDOW: All right.

NEGUSE: I mean, I will say this, there are very capable, talented lawyers serving on this committee, many of whom you`ve had on your program. We are prepared. We are unified. It`s an important moment, the stakes are very high.

MADDOW: If in the moment, it needs to go longer than three hours, you guys have the power to make it go longer than three hours?

NEGUSE: I would defer to the chairman on that question.

MADDOW: Well done. This is discipline in action. Congressman Joe Neguse, member the House Judiciary Committee, a disciplined man -- thank you very much for being us. Great to have you here. Come back soon.

NEGUSE: Thank you, Rachel. Definitely.

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