CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chris Murphy

Interview

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Yes, perhaps an element of propaganda there as well. But Iran is certainly a topic at the annual forum, where you have officials, military leaders, lots of journalists here, although, interestingly, fewer Trump administration officials than in years past.

We are happy to be joined though by Senator Christopher Murphy of Connecticut, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and certainly a topic that you're very interested in is Iran.

You've been concerned about this administration setting the country on a path to war with Iran. You, of course, had Iran shoot down a U.S. drone some weeks ago. Now, you have Trump claiming to have shot down an Iranian drone, as well as 500 U.S. Forces going to Saudi Arabia. Are you concerned that the administration is sending U.S. on a path to war?

SEN. CHRISTOPHER MURPHY (D-CT): I am. I think this has been a policy. I won't call it a strategy, a policy of blind escalation without any endgame. It started with the withdrawal from the Iranian agreement. It then went forward to these unilateral sanctions, their naming of the Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization. And, ultimately, the miscalculation comes when the Iranians think that we are taking offensive actions when they're defensive, or we think they are taking offensive actions when they're actually taking defensive actions.

My big worry is that the Iranians are never going to be serious about getting back into negotiations because they simply don't trust this administration.

SCIUTTO: You do have at least offers being floated at this point, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Javad Zarif met with a number of reporters in New York yesterday, and presented the outlines of returning to talks, direct negotiations with the Trump administration. The Trump administration said they're open to it without preconditions. Do you at least see the possibility there of negotiation? After all, this is a president who went from fire and fury with North Korea, to meeting with Chairman Kim now three times?

MURPHY: So I would be thrilled if we got back into negotiations. The question is whether Zarif can convince the ayatollah and the hard liners to actually give him the ability to get back to the table. And, essentially, the hard liners have won the argument. They said don't enter into an agreement with President Obama because it won't last, the Americans won't stick to it.

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And Zarif may be throwing out some offers of negotiation. But, ultimately, he can't get to the table unless he has the support of the Supreme Leader. And I don't know that he has it right now.

Second, this administration just doesn't have the ability to negotiate an agreement like that. We've seen this throughout the North Korea negotiations. So even if they were to get to the table, the table might fall apart very quickly given their inability to do this kind of high level diplomacy.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Okay. Another topic, certainly, in the news but also in discussions here in Aspen is Saudi Arabia. So the Senate has now joined the House in voting to stop U.S. arms sales to Saudi Arabia, but the margin in the Senate is certainly not large enough to override a presidential veto. The President is promising to veto it. Has the Senate -- has Congress lost this battle with the Trump administration over Saudi Arabia?

MURPHY: We haven't lost the battle. We're going to take another shot next week. The Foreign Relations Committee is going to take up a separate piece of legislation to try to reset some aspects of our relationship with Saudi Arabia. One element of it will be a prohibition on the travel of Saudi royal family members to the United States. That alone might be a serious signal to the Saudi government. But, yes, it's hard right now because we have a bipartisan majority to stop arms sales to send a clear message about ending the war in Yemen, but it isn't enough to override a presidential veto and signal what we're sending to the world, in which we have essentially made ourselves the inferior partner to the Saudis that they can murder and dismember an American resident and then get rewarded by it from the U.S. government is, I think, a very, very chilling message. And I'm hoping that we will build republican support so we get to a number where we can override a presidential veto.

SCIUTTO: As you know, the Trump administration has blown by a legally mandated deadline to determine responsibility for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. That was back in February. It's under the Magnitsky Act. What is Congress going to do to hold Saudi Arabia, specifically the leader, the Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman, responsible for that killing?

MURPHY: So the Magnitsky Act says that the President has to make a finding on human rights violations and then sanction those individuals. The President has ignored that requirement under the law. But there's nothing that says the Congress can't undertake our own sanctions.

And so what I would like to see the Congress do is name the individuals responsible for Khashoggi's murder, but also for the detainment of U.S. citizens who are right now in Saudi custody who have reportedly been electrocuted and starved in Saudi prisons.

So congress could do that but republicans in the Senate right now are more interested in giving the President cover on bizarre dangerous foreign policy than resetting it.

SCIUTTO: Another topic, very central, is Turkey and NATO. So Turkey has gone ahead with buying Russia surface-to-air missiles in violation of the NATO treaty. NATO's posture on this is interesting because, obviously, they want to register their discontent with this but not move towards kicking Turkey out. In your view in light of this, does Turkey still belong in NATO?

MURPHY: So I don't want to kick Turkey out of NATO: I think that they are a very important part, and I think it's important for NATO to have an extension into the Muslim world, into Middle East.

At the same time, I don't think that you can allow a NATO partner to do this kind of high level business with Russia without some consequences.

And so I would hope that the actions we are going to take -- suspending some of our serious weapons sales to Turkey doesn't permanently disrupt our alliance with them but sends a message that may get them back closer to the United States and our European partners.

SCIUTTO: Final question, if I can. As you know, Vice President -- former Vice President Joe Biden made a disturbing prediction and this was on CNN, that if President Trump is re-elected, there will be no NATO in four to five years.

I had the opportunity to speak to the NATO Secretary General a couple of days ago, Jens Stoltenberg, I asked him that question. He said, no. Listen, the President's rhetoric aside, the U.S. is still taking steps to shore up NATO, deployment of additional forces in Europe, et cetera. Do you share the former Vice President's concerns that Trump's commitment to NATO is uncertain and the alliance is in danger?

MURPHY: I do. I believe that this president simply does not believe in the wisdom of big bilateral defense and economic associations. He sees the European Union as a threat to the United States, not as a partner, like we should see it. And he ultimately has already undermined NATO by suggesting we might not come to the defense of some of the smaller countries inside that alliance.

And so given a second term, I can absolutely see this president doing enough damage to NATO that it either seriously weakens to the point that it is no longer a workable defense alliance or it falls apart. I think that is absolutely serious risk.

SCIUTTO: And Russia listens to those words, you know. If they hear an opening, they might take advantage of an opening. Senator Chris Murphy, we appreciate you taking the time this morning.

MURPHY: Thanks, Jim.

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