NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Tom Cotton

Interview

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SEN. TOM COTTON:

Thanks for having me on, Chuck. Thanks for your interest in Sacred Duty.

CHUCK TODD:

Absolutely. And I want to talk about it a little bit at the end. But let me start with the abortion debate. Because one of it is a -- you're a constitutional -- you've, you took your constitutional law. You went to Harvard law. The question really is, is when do you believe a fetus has constitutional rights?

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Chuck, like a lot of folks here in Arkansas, I'm pro-life. And I think a basic responsibility of government, in a civilized society, is to protect innocent life. I know that that's a passionate question on both sides. One of the problems of having unelected judges in Washington make that kind of decision for us, as a nation, is that you can't have space for democratic debate, where you can reach consensus and try to find some common ground. I think that's unfortunate. But I think that what I'm most proud of here, in Arkansas, is that we have recognized that the frontiers of medical science are being pushed back. So doctors are saving the lives of babies born in NICUs in this state at 22 or 20 or even earlier times. I think that's the kind of common ground that we can look for right now, at a time when unelected judges are still setting the basic rules on this very passionate issue.

CHUCK TODD:

But you, you, you yourself must have an opinion on this. When does -- when does a fetus have constitutional rights, in your mind?

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Chuck, what I want to try to find, in this debate, is area where we can, where we can agree on what we should do in a civilized society. If a baby can survive outside of its mother's womb, in a NICU, as the amazing doctors that we have in this country are able to do, at 22, 20 weeks, then we should protect that life. I know there's a lot of divisive issues and divisive debates. I mean, look, earlier this year, in the United States Senate. We proposed legislation that merely would've said, "If a baby is born during an attempted abortion, that that baby has the right to live and the right to medical care, just like any other person does." Every Democrat running for Senate voted against that law in one of the most-extreme votes I've seen cast in my four years in the U.S. Senate.

CHUCK TODD:

You had, at one time, sponsored a bill, though, that wanted to declare that life began at conception. You did that in the House. But you do not support a similar bill that Senator Rand Paul introduced. Why the change?

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Chuck, I haven't reviewed Senator Paul's bill. I personally believe that life does begin at conception. That's the standard that most Republicans who have held the presidency in modern times have held as well. Now they understand that there are certain tragic cases like rape or incest or when a mother's life is endangered that we ought to make an account for. That was the position that Ronald Reagan has as well. But I personally believe that life begins at conception. As long as we have unelected judges making the basic rules for abortion though, we should try to find ways in which we can protect the most innocent lives that can survive.

CHUCK TODD:

Is it, is it hard to make the -- if you believe that life begins at conception, then how do you justify an exception for rape and incest?

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Chuck, because we live in a democratic society. I recognize not everyone shares my views or the views of the vast majority of Americans or of Arkansans. That's why I say that one of the major problems of having unelected judges make these kinds of decisions is we don't have the ability to have those democratic debates. Have an open and frank conversation without playing within the guardrails that unelected judges have put up in this country. Look, states are going to make different decisions. New York State earlier this year enacted a very extreme abortion law that would allow abortion almost up to the point of delivery. Some politicians in Virginia earlier this year, like the disgraced governor, proposed potentially even euthanizing children that are born during an attempted abortion. I think those extremely -- those are extreme positions. But what we ought to have in this country is the ability to debate these in forthright democratic way and to reach some kind of consensus on them.

CHUCK TODD:

Should this be a political decision or should this be a medical decision? I say this, you brought up the science and you talked, that the Arkansas bill was trying to match the science. Should this be a -- should, should you guys be getting a panel of medical doctors to decide, "OK this is when a fetus is viable", therefore -- should this be decided by medical professionals and not by frankly I don't think you or I went to medical school?

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Chuck, medical science, of course, informs these decisions but ultimately these are moral questions. But medical science is advancing. Ten or 15 years ago a child that was born at 22 or 20 weeks might have not been able to survive. As the progress of medical science advances though that informs our debate. Now, it's true from the other perspective, as well. I mean, we have some horrific practices that are now possible by medical science, such as screening for abortion --

CHUCK TODD:

Right.

SEN. TOM COTTON:

-- for people who may want to select for a male child instead of a female child or who look for various kinds of genetic defects or indicators. And they want to abort a child that may not even have those illnesses or those diseases when they're born. I think those are barbaric practices that any civilized nation should not permit.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you want Roe completely overturned? Or do you want it done in such a way where there is still a basic protection? I mean, you talked about a democratic process. It is something -- nearly two to one, in the exit poll in 2018, of folks favoring keeping Roe as is.

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Well, Chuck, technically, it's Planned Parenthood v. Casey from the early 1990s that currently governs abortion laws in this country. I think those decisions were wrongly decided as a constitutional matter. I think these are decisions that the American people ought to make through their elected representatives. Again, people are going to make different decisions. Those decisions will have more democratic legitimacy, as some of the dissenters in Planned Parenthood, like, you know, Scalia said --

CHUCK TODD:

Right.

SEN. TOM COTTON:

-- if they're available for democratic debate, if people of differing viewpoints, through their elected representatives, can make these decisions, informed by all the relevant facts.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me move to Iran. I want to play something that Senator Angus King said about the intelligence that he has seen, regarding Iran. He said this earlier this week. I want to get you to respond to it.

[BEGIN TAPE]

SEN. ANGUS KING:

I don't think there's faulty intel here, necessarily. I think the intel may be accurate. But the unanswered question, again, is are they reacting to our assertions of action in the Middle East? Or are we reacting to them? And that's, that's an unanswered question for me.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Do you concede that the intelligence may be -- that folks are interpreting it, maybe the way they want to interpret it?

SEN. TOM COTTON:

So Chuck, I've read the intelligence, not just over the last 2 weeks but for the last 4 and a half years, the intensity and the frequency of this intelligence reporting is significantly heightened over the last 2 to 3 weeks. I don't have any doubts that Iran started taking provocative action 2-3 weeks ago. The United States, on the recommendation of our military, made prudent decisions like deploying a new aircraft carrier and B-52 bombers and patriot missile defense systems to the region. We didn't do those to prepare for military action against Iran. We did those things to deter military action by Iran.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you think the president should -- he wants to sit down with either the Ayatollah or Rouhani and negotiate this. What do you think?

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Well, at this point Chuck, we're focused on trying to deter military action against the United States personnel and our allies in the region. And that's not very fruitful conditions for sitting down with any foreign leader. Iran is an outlaw regime that for 40 years has been waging a low-grade war against the United States. You know, that war has turned hot at times, in the 1980s, they attacked American flag vessels in the Persian Gulf. In the Iraq war, one of the deadliest bombs was smuggled in from Iran. They have the blood of over 500 dead Americans on their hands. Some of those --

CHUCK TODD:

You've --

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Americans, as I write about in Sacred Duty, would be buried in Arlington National Cemetery. But right now, we are at a state of heightened tension, because of Iranian aggression.

CHUCK TODD:

Why do you think an Iran war would somehow be easier -- would be as easy as you seem to describe. I mean, one strike, last strike. That was -- There was a lot of that talk about Iraq and obviously that turned out to be not so easy.

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Well Chuck, there's a whole range of military options that our Department of Defense provides to the president. Those range from the kind of military strikes we've taken twice against Syria under President Trump to what you saw in Iraq. No one, to my knowledge, is proposing what you saw in Iraq with 150,000 troops mass to invade a country, overthrow its government, and try to govern 80 million Iranians. We'd like 80 million Iranians to be able to live in a normal country that doesn't try to overthrow --

CHUCK TODD:

So you're not advocating regime change --

SEN. TOM COTTON:

-- other governments in the region and terrorize the world.

CHUCK TODD:

You're not advocating regime change?

SEN. TOM COTTON:

We'd like to see the regime change its behavior. But my point about the first strike and the last strike is the United States is not going to take the first strike here. But if Iran attacks the United States or our allies in the first strike, then it will be up to America in a time and a manner of our choosing to take the last strike because our military will devastate theirs.

CHUCK TODD:

Before I let you go, Sacred Duty: A Soldier's Tour at Arlington National Cemetery. Tell me one place you should tell Washingtonians, if they've not been to one part of Arlington National Cemetery, that they might not have seen, that they should see.

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Well, Chuck, every headstone in Arlington tells a story. And as I write about in Sacred Duty, the old guard of Arlington provides the honors to our fallen heroes. It was an honor for me to serve there. But this book is their story, not my story. But if you really want to see a living testament to the heroism of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and coast guardsmen, go to Section 60. It's where young men and women who have been killed in the last 17 years, in the war on terror, are buried. It's un -- unusual that it's got so many visitors, so many family members, so many friends, so many mementos. It can be sad. But especially as we approach Memorial Day, even though I know it's called the saddest acre in America, I prefer to think of it as the noblest acre in America. Because it represents the very best among us and what they were willing to do for our freedom and our safety.

CHUCK TODD:

I find walking Arlington National Cemetery inspirational, that's for sure. Senator Tom Cotton, Republican from Arkansas, thanks for coming on and sharing your views, sir. Much appreciated.

SEN. TOM COTTON:

Thanks, Chuck. Thanks for the interest in Sacred Duty.

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