NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Jeff Merkley
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
And joining me this morning are Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon, who has long called for centers holding children to be shut down. He'll be joining us from Portland. And from San Antonio, it's Representative Will Hurd, the only Republican congressman who represents a district on the U.S.-Mexico border. Senator Merkley, I'd like to start our conversation with you. You've been a leading voice on this. Before others had, you had made pilgrimages to these first -- to these centers before others had gone down there. Why hasn't anything changed and why has it gotten worse?
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
Well, I'll tell you when I hear a member of the administration say that the reports on the conditions are unsubstantiated, I'm just like, "What world are they living in?" Because we've had the inspector generals, who work for these departments, do these reports. We've had journalists do extensive interviews and report on the conditions.We've had the Flores settlement agreement lawyers, who have special access, go in and report on the conditions. From every direction you see that the children are being treated in a horrific manner. And there's an underlying philosophy that it's okay to treat refugees in this fashion. And that's really the rot at the core of the administration's policy.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Merkley, what, what would happen if we could get our cameras in there? I mean, I don't mean to be this crass about it, but is -- are pictures are what's missing here for action?
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
Well, certainly we have a visual picture from the -- from these various reports. An actual camera might make a difference.
CHUCK TODD:
Why is the administration --
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
But what you find --
CHUCK TODD:
-- not allowing -- because that to me sort of -- potentially comes across as damning. Why do they prevent -- why do they take your cell phones if you're a member of Congress going in there or they try to? I mean, they clearly are afraid of pictures. Why?
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
Well, it's because pictures portray a very graphic representation that people can't argue with. And so they don't want that information out. I will say though the conditions are probably always better when members of Congress visit. They've required extensive notice in advance. They clean up the facilities. They decrease the number of people there. So that is why it's valuable to have an inspector general who can drop in at a moment's notice and who works for the administration to give a report. But let's think about that settlement or the bill that was just passed. It did nothing to change the blockade of children at the border being left in Mexico. It did nothing to change the for-profit system of Homestead, where 3,200 children capacity the largest child prison in American history is being established. And the company's paid $750 a day to lock up children. No incentive to get them into homes. This process of the brutalization of refugees and particularly children is part of a philosophy of saying, "If we treat them like this, we'll discourage them from coming." There's just no ethical framework or religious tradition that allows you to mistreat children in this fashion.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you this. The president seems to say -- this is what he tweets. And I'm curious if you take him at his word. He seems to say that if Democrats will agree to his changes in the asylum laws, that he'll perhaps, you know, move on this issue. "Democrats must change the loophole in asylum laws, but they probably won't. They want open borders, which means massive crime and drugs." Is there changes to the asylum laws that he wants that you would agree to?
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
Well, let's get rid of the myth that Democrats are arguing for open borders. We've supported border security, and that's just a -- thatâs a red herring thrown in there. But the change they want is to get rid of the Flores settlement agreement, that says you can only lock up children for three days and you need to move them into a state-licensed child care facility or into a home. There is no way under any set of conditions that Democrats are going to support the indefinite lockup of children. We know from all the child experts that this does traumatic injury, that that trauma is -- can have lifelong effects. It is a horrific strategy on their part, on the part of the administration. And the answer on that is absolutely not. Flores in fact needs to be applied to the influx facilities like Homestead, where it's not being applied currently. And so we need to expand that application, not eliminate it.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, it feels as if we're in this stalemate here where heâs -- the president -- if the president's not going to budge on this, congressional Republicans are likely not going to move. They would move if he's willing to move. We've seen that politically on some other issues. Walk me through how this is going to -- how can we --- how do you fix this? How do you expedite this? It just seems to me we're in a, a cul-de-sac here.
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
Well, we are trapped. We're trapped between a philosophy that says, "Let's discourage immigration by mistreating refugees," and an argument that, "Let's be a country, as we have often been, that treats migrants and refugees with respect." It doesn't mean that they're able to stay. I mean, it's very hard to go through the asylum process. Most applicants are turned down. But there's no reason to mistreat individuals as they're awaiting an asylum hearing. I don't know how we can get to that core change unless we have some real leadership from Republicans inside Congress who say, "Enough is enough."
CHUCK TODD:
I want to get you to respond to something that Jeh Johnson, the last -- President Obama's secretary for Homeland Security, wrote today in the Washington Post. Here's one part of it. He said, "We cannot, as some Democratic candidates for president now propose, publicly embrace a policy to not deport those who enter or remain in this country illegally unless they commit a crime. This is tantamount to a public declaration repeated and amplified by smugglers in Central America that our borders are effectively open to all." How do you respond to Secretary Johnson's critique that it does look like -- the idea of decriminalizing coming over the border feeds into this notion that, "Yeah, it's open borders"?
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
Well we had, previous to the Trump administration, it was a civil offense, not a criminal offense. That's the distinction they're speaking of. Returning to a civil offense. That doesn't mean you get to stay in the United States indefinitely. You still go through an asylum hearing. We maintain the case management -- family case management program where 99-100% of families showed up for their asylum hearings. They were treated with respect and dignity. And if they establish their case, they're able to stay. If they're not, they're deported. But in between, they're treated as fellow human beings who are fleeing difficult circumstances and they're treated with respect and decency.
CHUCK TODD:
Before I go, one political question for you, Senator Merkley. Four years ago, this is what you wrote about Bernie Sanders when you endorsed him for president. "It is time to recommit ourselves to that vision of a country that measures our nation's success not at the boardroom table but at kitchen tables across America. Bernie Sanders stands for that America, and so I stand with Bernie Sanders for president." You have not endorsed this time. There was a reference this morning in the New York Times that you probably have heard about that Senator Sanders hasn't even called you to ask for your support again. Where do you stand on the presidential race?
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
Well, we have a lot of capable individuals who are running who do understand the kitchen table. And I'm really looking forward to them laying out that vision, getting America excited about returning to the fundamentals of taking on health care, and housing, and education, infrastructure, living-wage jobs, the things that have been incredibly neglected and set aside by this administration.
CHUCK TODD:
So why not Sanders this time?
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
Well, I feel that there are many capable individuals who are making this case. And I'm looking forward to hearing each of them lay it out. It's both the vision that you have and your ability to carry that vision into the momentum that allows you to make these changes once you're in office. And I think a robust debate among, among these individuals -- this is no longer a Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. Hillary Clinton is not a candidate. So we have a different set of cards this time, and I'm looking forward to hearing from all of them.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Senator Jeff Merkley, Democrat from Oregon, thank you for coming on and sharing your views. I much appreciate it.
SENATOR JEFF MERKLEY:
Thank you.
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