CNN "Anderson Cooper 360" - Transcript: Interview with Gov. Gavin Newsom

Interview

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COOPER: Governor Newsome, it was just four months ago that you issued a statewide executive moratorium on the death penalty. When you heard what the Trump administration now is planning, what did you think?

[20:35:08] GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): It didn't surprise me at all. I think after Vice President Biden came out with his platform, being now among the chorus of Democrats that support the repeal of the death penalty, invariably this would come out. This is a President that's governing by fear and anger. This few days before the next Democratic debate, making sure that this is topic. I'm not surprised at all.

COOPER: So, you think it's coming out intentionally to make this a topic during the debate because he thinks it's a winning issue for him?

NEWSOM: Yes. I mean, the debate happens to be coincidental, but certainly in this campaign it doesn't surprise me. I mean, frankly, what surprises me is he didn't do it in the last two years. But it's ginned up, I'm sure, just in time before the election and it's unfortunate.

I mean, the fact is the trend line in the United States of America is to repeal death penalty, you just saw it happened in New Hampshire. Of course, I govern the state with the largest death row in the western hemisphere, 734 people. We put a moratorium. The trend line has been favorable in the United States and around the rest of the world, but the President of the United States wants to gin back up this base and make this a topical issue. Again, it doesn't surprise me.

COOPER: The Department of Justice, they've basically identified five people who they say they would execute. I mean, when you look at what these people did, it is really horrific crimes that we're talking about. I mean it's, you know, torture and murder and really disgusting stuff.

NEWSOM: Yes.

COOPER: Explain why you think that they should not face the death penalty, because they've already been convicted and they're already obviously in prison.

NEWSOM: Well, I value life and I don't think we have the right to take the life of another human being and I think it rather perverse. I have four young kids. To tell my 9-year-old daughter that we're going to kill someone to teach you that it's wrong to kill, it's rather a perverse message.

The fact is the vast majority of Democratic governance around the world has moved away either in practice or by law to repeal the death penalty. It's just interesting, countries like Saudi Arabia, North Korea where we increasingly seeing to be cozying up moved in the opposite direction. I just think we're better than that.

And I also think, Anderson, briefly, there's another fundamental point, wealth, culpability determines whether or not you'll end up on death row more often than not. The color of your skin determines that fate more often than not. And I understand that --

COOPER: You think the system is so unfair that it's not fair to have this ultimate penalty?

NEWSOM: Look, I just had someone who spent 25 years, a quarter of a century on death row in California for a crime he didn't commit. He's one of over 150 people that have been exonerated that have been on death row. If we don't think this, we know we've killed people that did not commit the crimes.

And we know disproportionately -- I'm in a state where 66 percent of people on death row are people of color. There's a fundamental fact in our criminal justice system, and that is it's not fair to poor people and people of color. It's been said many, many times and I'll repeat it, we treat people that are rich and guilty better than we treat people that are poor and innocent in our criminal justice system.

COOPER: I also want to ask you about news out of California last night, a federal judge issuing an injunction against the Trump administration policy that would essentially end asylum claims at the southern border.

You obviously taken issue with the Trump administration immigration policies, particularly when it comes to asylum seekers. Do you expect that new policy that the President is trying to institute, do you expect it to continue to get knocked down by courts?

NEWSOM: Yes, because I think he's got to change the law. He can't just by, you know, fiat or executive order decide that he can do whatever he wants to do. I think the law is pretty clear. I think in that case the outcome was predetermined on the basis of the facts. Obviously they'll try to appeal it or they'll try to work around it, but it's the nature of what we're dealing with now.

We have a President that's not interested in governing, doing the hard work of legislating, working to develop compromise, creating conditions to bring people together. It's all about, you know, again, creating a frame of fear and anxiety and anger to gin up his base and it's really sad and it's rather pathetic and weak, but it is what we're dealing with in the United States right now.

COOPER: Does it work? I mean, do you think it's going to work for him to get reelected?

NEWSOM: It's going to work if we don't call it out. It's going to work if we don't stand up. It's going to work if the courts don't intervene. It's going to work only if we don't rollover. And, you know, we're going to continue to do our part in the state of California.

Look, we're doing it on vehicle emissions standards. It proves that you can win in this environment. Trump just had a huge loss as it relates to his efforts to roll back fuel efficiency in this country, to take us backwards as it relates to climate change. It proves if we stand up, we assert ourselves and we use our moral authority, we can beat them.

[20:40:02] COOPER: You just struck a deal I think it was with four automakers of raising fuel efficiency standards for California. There was a spokesman for the EPA who said about this in California. They said, "This voluntary framework is a PR stunt that does nothing to further the one national standard that will provide certainty and relief for American consumers."

NEWSOM: Yes. Well, they certainly know a lot about PRs, so it's not surprising. But the facts are the facts. These four automobile companies, Ford and among others, representing 30 percent of all the auto sales in the United States of America have committed regardless of what Trump does to these higher standards, the Obama air standards with a slight tweak. So no matter what they do, it won't matter for at least 30 percent of the market.

Now, what will invariably happen, Anderson, watch this space is other automobile manufacturers will have to join because they don't want two standards in this country. This was a big, big thing that's happened for the environment.

Transportation is the principal source of emissions in the United States of America. If we can tackle this and advance the principles that California advanced in the Obama administration embraced, we're going to make some progress. Donald Trump in this case is losing this debate. This was a big breakthrough today.

COOPER: Governor Newsom, appreciate your time. Thank you.

NEWSOM: Thanks for having me.

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