CNN "the Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Denny Heck
Interview
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BLITZER: All right. A significant threat on that front, too. Michelle Kosinski, thank you. very much
Joining us now, Congressman Denny Heck of Washington State, a member of the Intelligence Committee.
Thanks for joining us. Lots to discuss. Let's get to the president. Donald Trump Jr. gave a private interview to your committee --
[17:10:00]
BLITZER: -- back in December of 2017 after reading the Mueller report, all 400-plus pages.
Why do you think the Senate Intelligence Committee now has subpoenaed him to come back?
REP. DENNY HECK (D-WA), MEMBER, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, Wolf, anything I would say would principally be speculation but it doesn't seem to me this is the kind of thing where they're just wrapping up loose ends. It seems they want to explore some inconsistencies and attempt to get Junior to reconcile them for them.
Anybody who thinks this is over just isn't paying attention to the facts. Above and beyond Donald Trump Jr., there were, count them, 12 investigations spun out to various federal prosecutors, about which we had no idea prior to the issuance of the Mueller report. So this is just part of the ongoing saga here.
BLITZER: Do you think your Senate colleagues suspect Donald Trump Jr. may have perjured himself?
HECK: Well, that's one plausible explanation for why they would want him to come back but it would be speculation on my part and unfair to Donald Trump Jr. to assert thus. It could be any number of reasons.
But here's what's interesting to me. Out of all of the people that they interviewed -- and I think they interviewed staff and members, well over 100 -- that they chose him to come back, I think, is revealing in and of itself.
BLITZER: It's revealing that the Republican chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee approved this subpoena. A Republican chairman, not a Democratic chairman.
Why do you think President Trump is so concerned about the prospect of his son testifying before the Senate Intelligence Committee?
HECK: Well, I think the answer to that question is obvious, Wolf.
BLITZER: Well, explain.
HECK: That he may reveal something that reflects poorly on the president.
Why else would he care?
Of course, I've had that question all along, when there's been resistance to disclosure of documents or coming forth to testify.
Why?
If there's no underlying reason for being concerned, why would it concern him that the Senate Intelligence Committee would call Don Jr. back?
BLITZER: It is pretty extraordinary that the committee -- the Senate Intelligence Committee has subpoenaed the son of the president of the United States. It's pretty extraordinary. The president is back to saying it's up to the attorney general to, if
Robert Mueller will testify before Congress, after tweeting that Mueller should not testify.
Do you still expect Barr, the attorney general, to allow Mueller to appear before your committee?
HECK: So there's some point in the near future at a date yet to be determined where Bob Mueller is no longer an employee of the Department of Justice. And I'm unaware of whether or not he signed a document prior to being hired as special counsel that would prohibit him from coming back in the capacity as a civilian.
So, frankly, I do expect Bob Mueller to appear before either or both the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee.
Here's how I look at this. We have the redacted version of this report. We're seeking the unredacted version as well as underlying documents. Chairman of the Intelligence Committee, Schiff subpoenaed them yesterday.
But having all of that is kind of like having the sheet music without having ever heard the song. And there's only one person who can sing the song and that's Director Mueller.
When you stop and think about it, it's pretty amazing. In some 20 months since this investigation began, not one time, not for one second have we heard the voice of Bob Mueller. It's time to hear from Bob Mueller.
BLITZER: The House Intelligence Committee chairman, your chairman, Adam Schiff, the top Republican on the committee, Devin Nunes, they have jointly requested the unredacted Mueller report.
Do you expect the Justice Department to be more accommodating to this request than what we saw with the House Judiciary Committee?
HECK: No, no. Miracles still do happen, though. Not only did they jointly request that once, they actually jointly requested it twice. In March and in April. Here's how I view this.
This is just going to continue to play out, where the president is going to ignore every legitimate Article I constitutional oversight effort on the part of the Congress. It's going to go to court.
And in the absence of something disrupting of all of that and a significant change in public opinion, especially among the Republicans' base, this is headed toward a constitutional crisis. Or it would just eventually be litigated on November 3rd, 2020.
BLITZER: Are you concerned that holding the attorney general in contempt will hurt your efforts to get information from the Justice Department?
HECK: I don't know how it would do that. Look, I am not an attorney, Wolf. As I've told you, I don't play one on TV. But I joined with the more than 800 former federal prosecutors, who
indicated that section two of the Mueller report is a clear pattern of obstruction of justice by the president. And it is time to hear from Director Mueller about that and to get color on it and to be able to ask questions about that --
[17:15:00]
HECK: -- and to be able to ask him the questions, very explicitly, were it not for the precedent in the Office of Legal Counsel saying you cannot indict a sitting president, would you have indicted President Trump?
That, too, may be a disrupting event but only time will tell.
BLITZER: What about next Wednesday?
That was the date that we had heard that he might show up before the House Judiciary Committee.
What are you hearing?
HECK: You can hear everything and all sides of that story that you want to. We're just going to -- this is going to play out a day at a time. I still maintain that, sooner or later, Director Mueller will come before some committee of the Congress in House or Senate. I hope before the Intelligence Committee.
And particular, I hope this, Wolf, because, as has been indicated, we believe he gathered significant information and material of a counterintelligence nature that did not fit neatly into either section one or two of his report.
And it would help us do our job in keeping America safe if we knew more fully what it is that he learn about how Russia interfered in our election.
BLITZER: Congressman Denny Heck, you got through with all that crosstalk in the background as a broadcast professional. We're grateful to you. Thank you very much.
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